Trespass issues

[lard]

So what you're saying is that you can put half as many defensive units on a border when you put them in barricades because you can leave gaps that the enemy AI won't/can't go through as he'll get shot up?

Surely this wont stop a peaceful AI wandering around your territory though...

[justjake73]

If the only way from A to B (with B being open land) is through your territory, even a peaceful AI will try to get there through your land. If you are more powerful then them, have a little fun with "The Incredible Rubber Settler Trick." Wait until he's somewhat within your territory, then threaten war. He'll jump back to his nearest city

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by lard
So what you're saying is that you can put half as many defensive units on a border when you put them in barricades because you can leave gaps that the enemy AI won't/can't go through as he'll get shot up?

Surely this wont stop a peaceful AI wandering around your territory though...

If built properly they CAN'T move through the land (Barricades have a proper ZOC in C3C but are only effective if used in tandem), in addition it invalidates the sneak attack (unless you have a town right on the border) as they would have to reduce the barricades before assaulting the town. The AI doesn't send settler teams around a border with a system of barricades set up (unless you have a ROP in place, then its your own fault) because it knows it will not be able to get through the line.

[Cookie Monster]

But don't you have to build forts first and then barricades? Can barricades be built on their own without the fortress?

[lard]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber


If built properly they CAN'T move through the land (Barricades have a proper ZOC in C3C but are only effective if used in tandem), in addition it invalidates the sneak attack (unless you have a town right on the border) as they would have to reduce the barricades before assaulting the town. The AI doesn't send settler teams around a border with a system of barricades set up (unless you have a ROP in place, then its your own fault) because it knows it will not be able to get through the line.

So are you saying that enemy units can't go from a space in a ZOC to another space in a ZOC? All they can do if they move into a ZOC space is move back to where they came from or to another non-ZOC space.

If so that's great news and I will start using barricades immediately. If not then it's better than nothing I suppose!

OT: To me, a fortress is something you build AFTER a barricade. The former is a permanent position of fortification, the latter is a temporary structure built to achieve a short term goal. Just semantics I suppose

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Cookie Monster
But don't you have to build forts first and then barricades? Can barricades be built on their own without the fortress?

Yes, you do have to build the fort first, as I said the Barricade system if built will require a major commitment in garrison units as well as worker turns

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by lard


So are you saying that enemy units can't go from a space in a ZOC to another space in a ZOC? All they can do if they move into a ZOC space is move back to where they came from or to another non-ZOC space.

If so that's great news and I will start using barricades immediately. If not then it's better than nothing I suppose!

OT: To me, a fortress is something you build AFTER a barricade. The former is a permanent position of fortification, the latter is a temporary structure built to achieve a short term goal. Just semantics I suppose

Correct, a unit can move into a ZOC but can only move to a tile that is not ZOC controlled (hence the requirement to build barricades in tandem)

As for the Barricade- Fort issue it is a lesson in Semantics, but I would have used the Barricade as the lesser of the two if I had been in on the design of the game. They could have just as easily used Fort/Fortress, Trench/Fort or half a dozen others.

I have forgotten to mention one thing. If you build forts and barricades along your borders, it tends to piss off the AI's who can't send units through your land and could cause a war if there is a need to send major units through your territory (like a war on the other side of the continent)

[DrSpike]

If you can block, then block. If you have less units and can't block then just swear and take it. If you fancy a little war wait until they are in the middle of your lands on a grassland square or equivalent and introduce them to Mr massacre.

[lard]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

I have forgotten to mention one thing. If you build forts and barricades along your borders, it tends to piss off the AI's who can't send units through your land and could cause a war if there is a need to send major units through your territory (like a war on the other side of the continent)

Well, the AI using your territory as a corridor is something that happens far too often. If they want to get to some emeny on the other side of a continent then they can try and get a ROP off me (not going to happen!), or use boats. If they declare war then tough! Hopefully by then I'll have a nice line of fortified barricades in their way

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by lard


Well, the AI using your territory as a corridor is something that happens far too often. If they want to get to some emeny on the other side of a continent then they can try and get a ROP off me (not going to happen!), or use boats. If they declare war then tough! Hopefully by then I'll have a nice line of fortified barricades in their way

Exactly, but the AI tendency to declare war when constructing barricades is prevelent enough that it needed to be mentioned.

[ZargonX]

Exactly, but the AI tendency to declare war when constructing barricades is prevelent enough that it needed to be mentioned.

Is this a proven tendancy? In my most recent game, I decided to try a full fortress-barricade line blocking my lands. The turn before I would finish the final piece, the AI on the other side attacked me out of the blue, pouring through the gap. Curious, I reloaded a few turns earlier and tried everything to get the relationship improved, or change the RNG values. Still, every time that final piece was about to be completed, the AI would go to war. Hard coded?

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by ZargonX


Is this a proven tendancy? In my most recent game, I decided to try a full fortress-barricade line blocking my lands. The turn before I would finish the final piece, the AI on the other side attacked me out of the blue, pouring through the gap. Curious, I reloaded a few turns earlier and tried everything to get the relationship improved, or change the RNG values. Still, every time that final piece was about to be completed, the AI would go to war. Hard coded?

I don't know if it is hardcoded but it occurs often enough that you need to be aware of this before employing this tactic. (BTW you should have a defender or two at all of the sites where you are constructing Fortresses and barricades (The AI loathes attacking fortified positions). In addition I employ a mobile reserve to counterattack any breach in the defensive line. Also, if you can, build forts/barricades on defensive terrain.

[anteos]

could you guys post some screenshots of the barricades in action. It would be interesting to see.

thanks

[realpolitic]

If I've declared war on a country while they were inside my borders, they're less likely to do it again. I often prefer to start a war this way, it can lead to less losses/unit destroyed than starting off by attacking cities only.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by anteos
could you guys post some screenshots of the barricades in action. It would be interesting to see.

thanks

Trying too but everytime I try to post a screenie it says that my file size is too large and gives the maximum file size as 800 x 0 pixels! Also I can't find the upload feature.

edit: Anyone who is interested, send me a PM and I will e-mail you some sceenshots of some uses of barricades.