Why I may never play a CIV gm again after nearly 20 yrs

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by hoppy43000
for 200 yrs america rarely if ever entered a war unless it was attacked 1st

Revolutionary War? We started it.
War of 1812? We started it.
Civil War? Who the hell else could have started it?
WW1? we weren't *really* attacked, but i'll give it to you anyway.
WW2? yay!
Vietnam? We weren't attacked.
Korea? We weren't attacked.
The Gulf war? We weren't attacked.
War on Terrorism? We were attacked by barbarians of the modern world.

America averages a major war every 20 years, and it appears as though we started a bunch of them.

[Plotinus]

Robert Newman's recent stage show, splendidly entitled "From Caliban to the Taliban", apparently revolved in part around the fact that "Since 1798 the US has invaded at least one country in every year, except for 1892." Unfortunately I don't know off-hand what was happening in 1892...

[MattPilot]

there is a way to get a totally peaceful game.

Just edit the rules so there are no units that can attack. Of course, the AI will probably declare vendetta upon you, but what the hell is he going to do?


And i guess if you want territory that the AI already has, you'd have to either try to convert it with superior culture (if ya got that much time on your hands), or you could use the intelligence agency.

But i guess that would be a boring game.

[MattPilot]

Btw, to fix your biggest complaint of all Hoppy, why don't you edit the rules in such a way, that the starting locations are further apart?

Try the "World Size" Tab when editing the rules and notice a field called "Distance between civs". Change it to whatever for any map size, save to a new file, go to the scenario folder, open the 'rules file' you just created, and create a random map.

Looks like you rather want to complain for hours on the forum, rather than spend 5 minutes in the editor changing these simple things.

[hoppy43000]

no matt im not so much Complaining as pointing things that i see as weaknesses C3C Seems thave set Civ in a direction that numerous others gms have THATS what i disagree with


for example there were numerous enhancemnts to ai aggressiveness more units, harder resources etc.. all these thiings making a warlike gm more of a necessity than a feature.

there were it seems no major changes in diplomacy.. simply they demand something you give in or they attack... hmm wheres the diplomatic solutions of things like economic sanctions or why is the AI still designed and set up so that a settler/warrior group is still allowed to wander thru your territory.. w2hen you walk into an AI civ your given a choice immediatelly move automatically out, or declare war.. when you ask a rival to move it takes 4-5 times asking them to leave by which time they are sometime on the otherside of your general terrotory , or again yoiu end up at war

m point being the AI diplomatic rules arent equally enforced with an AI civ as they are with a human.. It seems the ai is designed to deliberately designed to goad you into going to war

or perhaps there should be a way where if a settler/warrior unit is in your territory you can be allowed to "capture it" without creating all out war.. similar to how diplomats were expelled in previous versions thus allowing you to create a range of control rather than needing massive units and fortesses everywhere to blockade your entire border..

again my issues arent so much complaints as they are observations.. about changes that were claimed but were not implimented

even with xcurraghs in civ2 triremes were far superior and available sooner Id just like to see a civ 4 be a step fwd, whereas in many respects civ3/ptw/c3c seems to have gone backward in terms of the BASIC game design, another example is the inability of workers to eliminate mountains..

we now as a civ have thech to blow up or create entire mountains, create underwater bridges between britain and europe yet in the current gm roads irrigation etc are the main options for example the ai random generator creates a coast with whales 1-2 squares off the coast, and then a gruoping of mountan ranges 34 rows deep whats the point ? you cant settle on a mountain tile, lol and thus far you cant send a grup of worrker to terraform it down to hills so you can access the whales,.

what im saying is the random generation rules should be more intelligent, or we should be able to terraform any tile..

[Inverse Icarus]

there are sanctions in the form of embargoes.

the AI marches settlers through your lands because it needs land. if they are willing to go to war to claim that land over there, thats their problem.

the AI will make demands, and you can say no. if you have a formidable force (even just a defensive one) they'll back down.

you can play PEACEFULLY but you cant play WITH NO UNITS.

terraforming was horrible. making the whole world a grassland was stupid, and unbelieveable. we havent leveled the Andes, and havent seeded the Sahara. live with it.

currugahs are scouts. not transports. understand that and quit whining.

i concur that tunnels and canals would be good for a civ game, but they havent been implimented yet. i will conceed this point to you and in vite you into the Civ Future forum (down on the main forum lising) to duscuss canals with me.

the random map generator is suprisingly "intelligent". just because it doesnt have you a world of all grasslands doesn't mean it sucks.

[Antrine]

I agree completely that the random generator is sloppy and crude especially '34 rows deep' of mountains and every other terrain. How about a lot more sophistication here. Cut and paste would also be nice in map making. I like terra forming, however maybe with some fanfare of a newly designed tech and a mechanized worker, like unto modern engineers.

Underwater bridges is a nice touch. Canals would be fantastic! Instead of having to bridge bodies of water with cities only.

P.S. Hoppy have set the AI aggression to the lowest setting at start-up? I never have but do wonder how it works out.

[Antrine]

Uber, I do believe we are headed toward floating and underground cities and we are flatening mountains and hills every day. It is just that the Andes are still a tourist attraction
As well the Sahara used to be habitable, however I believe it was 'terra-formed' by ancient aliens into a desert.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Some terraforming would be nice, but it was way to unrealistic in civ2. Im used to the way it is in civ3 now and I can live with it.

Most of your complaints Hoppy can easily be remedied by changing the rules and leaving the map for the scenario file blank, as pointed out already.

I do agree with you about expulsions though, it would be nice to have some other course of action to take when a civ blatently keeps ignoring your requests for it leave, with out having to either go to war or just lump it.

If Ive got enough units I try to block their route and somtimes box them in so they get trapped in a useless spot. This does require lots of spare units though.

Maybe if you could capture them and demand ransom for their return, but thats civ4 stuff I suppose

[Kuciwalker]

the random map generator is suprisingly "intelligent". just because it doesnt have you a world of all grasslands doesn't mean it sucks.

Yeah, C3's map generator is INFINITELY better than C2's. C2's map generator was pathetic; it always gave those stupid squiggly continents.

[hoppy43000]

Krux, Antrine in case you havent noticed we have in fact hollowed out mountains NORAD is completely inside a mountain i believe, hmm 75 yrs ago Florida was almost all swampland now the everglades are disappearing We were capable of hollowing out a mountain in hawaii for our Extra Gasoline Supply, We built Hoover Dam, Panama Canal we now inhabit many places on the planet now that were once uninhabitable

there are cities and towns built on mountains why not within the game.. hmm there are tunnell that stretch thru the pocono mountains that go for miles... even herein florida in the keys theres the 7 mile bridge .. im not saying make theese thingeasy to do, but that given the manpower ie 25 workers it should be able to be done over a period of time.. thousands of workers tore down stone quarries to build the pyramids..

not saying terraforming be rampant as in civ2 but some of it should be possible ie you may not be able to flatten an entire mountain range...but you should be able to terra form a single tile to make an area minimally habitable

[MattPilot]

putting cities on mountains would be great, but with a maximum population of 6. (a nice Inca trait 'could' be that this limit wouldn't apply).


I've never seen any mountain ranges that are 34 tiles deep. I've seen some huge ones, but they contained small hills & a few plains inbetween, which would make it possible to plopp down a city, its just the city wouldn't grow anywhere (which is realistic).

[Inverse Icarus]

there is a setting on maps (age) that determines how "clustered" terrain features are.

carving out sections of mountains for bases isn't the same as turning it into farmland. not in the slightest.

you can chop down jungles in civ3.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by hoppy43000
Krux, Antrine in case you havent noticed we have in fact hollowed out mountains NORAD is completely inside a mountain i believe, hmm 75 yrs ago Florida was almost all swampland now the everglades are disappearing We were capable of hollowing out a mountain in hawaii for our Extra Gasoline Supply, We built Hoover Dam, Panama Canal we now inhabit many places on the planet now that were once uninhabitable

there are cities and towns built on mountains why not within the game.. hmm there are tunnell that stretch thru the pocono mountains that go for miles... even herein florida in the keys theres the 7 mile bridge .. im not saying make theese thingeasy to do, but that given the manpower ie 25 workers it should be able to be done over a period of time.. thousands of workers tore down stone quarries to build the pyramids..

not saying terraforming be rampant as in civ2 but some of it should be possible ie you may not be able to flatten an entire mountain range...but you should be able to terra form a single tile to make an area minimally habitable

And if you haven't noticed, you CAN clear jungle, forest, and swamps in C3. And wrt mountains, that was ONE MOUNTAIN. We could never level all of the mountains in the area a tile represents.

[Inverse Icarus]

wrt = with regard to? :???: