Sinning in Civ

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Thriller
"rape and pillage and get home in time for tea" type!

Ahh, a civilized barbarian. Gotta love 'em.

[:) Smiley]

Hmm, I doubt anything can beat saturation nuking of a city, as in turning every last land square in its radius into a puddle of orange glowing goo. Since it's wartime, the AI doesn't send out its settlers, and the city starves to the ground.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by steven8r
Did you Raze it, or Abandon it?

If you waited and used Leo's for upgrades, then you probably had to abandon it, unless you gave it back to them and then took it again, it which case you could RAZE it.

I'm not sure how much distinction the AI gives between Razing and Abandoning, but somehow I think that Razing is somewhat worse.
Steven

You are correct... but as there would clearly be majority of Ottoman citizens at the time of abandonment, I would suffer the same reputation effects as in razing.

See, I think like the AI!

[Theseus]

Originally posted by steven8r
One other thought:

It seems that (at least in Theseus' hands) Berzerks retain their utility well into the next age!

Pure

Steven

Next age? Ah, Lucy, let me 'splain.

Rifles?

HAH!!

Berserks are bad-*sses.

Infantry?

DOUBLE HAH!!

3xBerserk Armies attacking from sea with Mil Academy and amphib bonus have attack of somewhere between 12-13 (depending on how rounding happens), and between 12-15 hps.

Defending Infantry will have 4-5 hps, and possibly 10 or more defense, depending on which modifiers kick in (I believe none, other than coastal fortress, which should be bombarded away anyway, and is hardly an issue).

Unstoppable until MIs?

And even THEN!! Properly softened, I'd take my chances on a 4xBerserk Army (15 attack, 16-20 hps) against a 1 hp MI.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Theseus (emphasis added)
3xBerserk Armies attacking from sea with Mil Academy and amphib bonus have attack of somewhere between 12-13 (depending on how rounding happens), and between 12-15 hps.

Is there an amphib bonus? There were rumors of an undisclosed amphib bonus in Civ and PTW which proved to be untrue. And then there were comments / hints that at the very least amphib bonuses were explored for C3C -- but I've never seen any definitive statement nor any test posted. Have you confirmed that there is a bonus in C3C?

Catt

[Theseus]

Hmmm... not totally confirmed, but I could swear I saw somewhere that it is 25%.

And to repeat for the umpteenth time, we do not done what defense modifiers are in effect during an amphib attack.

(So, yeah, color me *optimistic* about amphib attacks... let me have my dreams. )

[Catt]

Originally posted by Theseus
And to repeat for the umpteenth time, we do not done what defense modifiers are in effect during an amphib attack.

We know of some. Back in the day of "On the Use and Utility of Marines" I did test whether city defensive bonuses (+50% for City and +100% for Metro) applied to amphib assaults and confirmed that they did apply -- the defensive modifiers for fortified unit and terrain also applied (I did not test walls). I had heard that either: (1) walls gave no defense bonus against amphib assualts; and/or (2) there were no City / Metro defensive bonuses against amhib. I never tested walls, but the conventional speculation about defensive bonuses for city size seemed to me to be disproved.

Probably worth a test in C3C to explore the possibility!

Catt

[Kuciwalker]

Defending Infantry will have 4-5 hps, and possibly 10 or more defense, depending on which modifiers kick in (I believe none, other than coastal fortress, which should be bombarded away anyway, and is hardly an issue).

Actually, defense 15 if they're fortified

[Theseus]

Re-testing is a must... I'll try to do so over the coming weekend.

Back on topic:

The reason I posted this thread was the guilt and dismay I felt at doing what I did.

Anybody else got horror stories?

[MrWhereItsAt]

No such stories I can recall, but we are not going to ever let you forget this, Theseus.

How can you live with yourself?

[Plotinus]

The worst thing I ever did was declare war on a friendly nation to seize a resource that it didn't know it had, because it was too primitive. I have to say I'm utterly feeble in this game. I have never, ever razed a city or deliberately starved one, and I hardly ever use the whip. I try to rule in an enlightened and benevolent manner and to treat the peoples of all nations with respect and harmony. Then I get wiped out by the Zulu.

[Aeson]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...al#post1473776 (near the end of the post)

I don't really feel guilty about it though... it was just for testing and documention purposes!

Moonsinger has some very interesting stories on the subject of this thread. (nuking her own cities to make flood plains )

[Mountain Sage]

Good to see that Theseus and I have the same playstile

[steven8r]

Originally posted by Theseus


Next age? Ah, Lucy, let me 'splain.

Rifles?

HAH!!

Berserks are bad-*sses.

Infantry?

DOUBLE HAH!!

3xBerserk Armies attacking from sea with Mil Academy and amphib bonus have attack of somewhere between 12-13 (depending on how rounding happens), and between 12-15 hps.

Defending Infantry will have 4-5 hps, and possibly 10 or more defense, depending on which modifiers kick in (I believe none, other than coastal fortress, which should be bombarded away anyway, and is hardly an issue).

Unstoppable until MIs?

And even THEN!! Properly softened, I'd take my chances on a 4xBerserk Army (15 attack, 16-20 hps) against a 1 hp MI.

Well, Berzerks are unstopable in (some) human hands. I recently played as Japan and the Scandies were my neighbors. They had a nasty habit of putting towns in spots that I'd already selected AND having more techs than me. Fortunately they had no Iron! I sent-in my Swordsmen vs their Spears, Archers, and Berserk and... well, they're now extinct.

Berzerk are VERY good at attack, but kinda sucky on defense. Of course, every one of my Swords that was attacked by Berzerk died, but that just left a (sometimes) wounded (almost always) defenseless Viking Target for my stack o' Swords to demolish. Fortunately the AI doesen't understand the intricacies of Amphibious Assault!

So, are Berzerk Armys Amphib? How about combined Berzerk/Marine???

Steven

[CerberusIV]

It's not in the same league as what Theseus did but in a PBEM game I recently abandoned my (size 12) capital which I could no longer defend in order to deny an opponent the Hanging Gardens.

Sorry Alva.