Scientific Leader at 1830 BC. Which Wonder?

[Kuciwalker]

Artemis was the huntress, eh?

No... she was the goddess of love and beauty, IIRC.

Nope - they disappear. Some reported that manually-built temples, completed before Artemis, also disappeared when Artemis expired, which would seem to be a full-fledged bug, but apparently that has been addressed by the 1.12 BETA patch.

Correct, it was.

[ducki]

Originally posted by skywalker

Artemis was the huntress, eh?

No... she was the goddess of love and beauty, IIRC.

You're thinking of Aphrodite.
Diana was the huntress, but that may have been another culture's name for Artemis. I think Artemis was The Hunt as well as Wisom, though I'm a bit rusty.

[Rhothaerill]

Totally off topic, but Artemis is the Greek name for the goddess of the hunt like Theseus said. Diana is the Roman name for the same goddess. The goddess of love in Greek was Aphrodite, Venus in Roman mythology.

I used to rock at Greek mythology.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Arrian
PYRAMIDS!!!

Pop is power. Growth is good. Be fruitful, and multiply.

Very much agreed, no contest. Growth is the key to everything else in the early game. Growth lets you build more settlers to REX into more territory, and more workers to improve your cities. It gives you more citizens in the core to bring production, and more in outlying areas to pop rush with or turn into tax collectors or scientists. There are alternatives to temples for dealing with happiness issues: the luxury slider and military police. But there is no substitute for granaries for boosting growth.

Nathan

[Aqualung71]

Artifex,

A lot of experienced Civ3 posters have given some good advice. I wouldn't pretend to be anywhere near their level of expertise, but for what my opinion is worth they are all 100% correct. Pyramids is a no-brainer (subject to vmxa1's point about not wanting to generate a GA this early in the game, and I forget whether Pyramids will do that for the Byzantines). Artemis does provide a temporary boost to happiness and culture, but building temples isn't that expensive anyway and that makes them permanent. Pity you don't have ivory, because depending on the game circumstances Zeus can be a game winner. As for Sun Tzu, IMHO it's one of the most over-rated wonders, but I know others disagree on this.

Getting those granaries will allow you to grow much faster, which in turn will give you the ability to spit out settlers quickly to fill up that half empty continent of yours. Again, a potential game winner if you can consolidate from there!

And don't forget Arrian's point on happiness - luxury slider is good, but another great way to control happiness is to keep your pop down by building workers, which build revenue-producing roads and production-enhancing shields - vital in the early game. You're also still building settlers, which also helps control your pop.

Cheers!

[Inverse Icarus]

i really need to build the pyramids more, eh? i kinda shrug it off, as i never get it in time (always seems to be built withing 5 turns of my completion).

[vmxa1]

I think I only made the ToA once and I know my existing temples were not deleted when it went away.

[Puma]

Athena known as Minerva in Rome was the wisdom goddess.
D**n, I never get the pyramids on emperor; usually someone in another continent ends up building it.

[nbarclay]

I almost never build the Pyramids the hard way because diverting a core city away from building settlers and workers in order to build the Pyramids slows down REXing significantly. But with an ultra-early SGL, that becomes a non-issue.

[Arrian]

The insta-GA issue is a real one. I hate that. I remember getting an ultra-early leader playing vanilla civIII (we're talking Grog here, folks, like 2500bc), and I was so excited I rushed the Pyramids before realizing that it would trigger my GA, because I was Egypt. That pissed me off.

The Pyramids are now Agricultural too, right? So they would trigger GAs for Egypt, the Celts, and the Maya. But not for my Iroquois Mine. My own. My pppppppreccccious.

Um, yeah. So if I was playing any of those civs, and found myself getting an ultra-early SGL, what would I do? Hmm. Two choices: 1) race flat-out for republic, hoping to get there and switch over before an AI civ has completed the Pyramids. Switch to rep, rush pyramids, use GA to gain strategic advantage; or 2) rush the Great Library, and research republic at 50-turn pace, hoarding cash. Maybe use on mass upgrades and break things.

-Arrian

[Stuie]

I finally learned my lesson (after reading it over and over in this forum) when moving up to Emperor: Granaries are good.

Rush the Pyramids.

[Plotinus]

I haven't had a chance to build the Temple of Artemis yet, but I think it looks great - just think of the early culture lead you can potentially build up, and of course the fact that newly conquered cities instantly start to get culture and expand their borders. Having to rebuild those Temples - at a later stage when they won't take so long to make - seems to me a very small price to pay.

[Okblacke] Are you sure about the list of Wonders? I was under the impression that the Great Library of Alexandria was not on the list, and that the Hanging Gardens of Babylon were.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Arrian
The insta-GA issue is a real one. I hate that. I remember getting an ultra-early leader playing vanilla civIII (we're talking Grog here, folks, like 2500bc), and I was so excited I rushed the Pyramids before realizing that it would trigger my GA, because I was Egypt. That pissed me off.

The Pyramids are now Agricultural too, right? So they would trigger GAs for Egypt, the Celts, and the Maya. But not for my Iroquois Mine. My own. My pppppppreccccious.

Ironically, the traits of the Pyramids mean that the Egyptians are among the least likely to build them

[okblacke]

Originally posted by Plotinus
I haven't had a chance to build the Temple of Artemis yet, but I think it looks great - just think of the early culture lead you can potentially build up, and of course the fact that newly conquered cities instantly start to get culture and expand their borders. Having to rebuild those Temples - at a later stage when they won't take so long to make - seems to me a very small price to pay.

Exactly. By that time, your cities are big enough to turn out a temple in three turns, and rushing them is cheap. Wanna drag it out? Research the military branch all the way to military tradition and get Cavalry.

Cavalry+Temple of Artemis = Blitzkrieg

[Okblacke] Are you sure about the list of Wonders? I was under the impression that the Great Library of Alexandria was not on the list, and that the Hanging Gardens of Babylon were.

Damn, damn, damn! You're absolutely right!

Forgot about those hanging gardens. Recent speculation is that they may have never existed.

[ok]

[mrmitchell]

I haven't had a chance to build the Temple of Artemis yet, but I think it looks great - just think of the early culture lead you can potentially build up, and of course the fact that newly conquered cities instantly start to get culture and expand their borders. Having to rebuild those Temples - at a later stage when they won't take so long to make - seems to me a very small price to pay.

Cultural landmarks gain more culture with age IIRC. So you'll have lost some culture because in Ind age for example your Temples will have only been 1 age old instead of 2.

Well, for example (this isn't hte real values)
WITH ToA
1, then destroyed, + 1 + 2 + 4 = 8
vs
1 + 2 + 4 + 8 = 15

I don't remember how it progresses, though.