The new, improved Great Wall

[patcon]

Originally posted by Niessuh
Well, I think that the idea with the construction of the Great Wall or Artemis is that they create the "effect" in your empire as if walls or temples were constructed in all your cities, but they does not construct physically one of them in every city. So once it becomes obsolete the effect is lost

I understand the concept of "effect". But since the improvement isn't really there, why can't I build the real improvement in anticipation of losing the virtual one. If I'm in a war it would be nice to be able to build walls in my frontline cities, knowing that the about-to-be-discovered metallurgy is going to leave these cities without walls in 3 turns.

Side note: I understand that if my enemies discover metallurgy and have more potent means of destroying walls I should lose the effect of the GW, but if I am the one with that knowledge, why do I lose the benefit? Am I going to destroy my own walls?

[Niessuh]

Yeah, I agree with you

[Tacit_Exit]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Are you sure?

Here is the bug report I posted at Civfanatics in the (now archived) PTW 1.21f bug forum, and here is the test I did to discover the bug, using 1.21f.

I have no idea why your readme has 1.21f indicated as the version where the fix was made, as I clearly remember checking the 1.27f readme to determine if the bug had been fixed, which it had.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Weird! What does everyone else's readme say? v1.21f like mine or v1.27f like Tacit_Exit's?

[MrWhereItsAt]

Tacit - just read your test thread. Are you certain of which version you were using? I may test this out a bit when I get home and can do so, with v1.21 and with v1.27f

[Tacit_Exit]

Just had a thought. . .
Wasn't the Euro-English 1.21f delayed somewhat? (I have an Australian PTW so used the US patch). If so, perhaps some of the fixes of the US 1.27f were incorporated into the Euro-English 1.21f, hence 'your' 1.21 may well have had the wall fix, where 'mine' didn't.

Just checked the US and Euro-Non English 1.27f fixes list at civfanatics, and it indicates the fix for walls not obseleting (3rd last entry).

[MrWhereItsAt]

Tacit - what does you readme say for v1.21? Is it the same as mine there? And I have always opted for the American patch - actually I am not sure what difference there is between an American English patch and a non-American English patch. Is there region coding or something for Europe and the US, as there is none here, to the best of my knowledge.

[Tacit_Exit]

I can't check my 1.21f readme as I don't have it anymore; did a hd format before I installed Conquests and I don't know where to get it now.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Just look at the lastest PtW readme, that's where I got the change from. Changes should all be organised into the different versions: v1.17f, v1.21f etc.

[MqsTout]

Let me chime in that, specifically with ToA, I really wish I -could- build real temples in expectation that the virtual ones will disappear after the discovery of education. Particularly if I'm going for a culture victory and want my temples to have doubled culture production in the industrial era.

My purpose of the post though:

The wonder flag "doubles city defenses" is now unused by anything (in an epic game anyway). What would people suggest as a wonder to use this flag? I wonder, does it also double the defense of a citizen defense force? If so, maybe that's why they decided to change it.

(Yes, I'm one of those people who would like to see the double effects of the marketplaces/harbors/police stations split into separate buildings too.)

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by MqsTout

(Yes, I'm one of those people who would like to see the double effects of the marketplaces/harbors/police stations split into separate buildings too.)

We're a bit OT here I guess, but the thread is awaiting someone with different versions of the patch to post on what patch their readme says introduced the GW change.

Anyway, what doubling effects do you mean? None of those improvements double anything, unless you mean a flag to double the effects of each/all of those improvements that is unused for the Epic game.

[Tacit_Exit]

Ok, I just downloaded and applied PTW 1.27f to get access to the readme, and it has the wall fix indicated under Fixes in v1.21f!?

But there are 2 sections of 'Fixes in v1.21f', and the fixes/changes list posted at Civfanatics here when 1.27f was released indicates it was a 1.27f change!?

I think its a readme typo.

[MqsTout]

The wonder flag in the editor that used to be on the great wall "doubles city defense" is no longer used, since the GW now provides city walls to all cities. I was just fishing for ideas of what could possibly be modded in by people to use this flag.

[bongo]

I always found it strange that metallurgy makes the GW obsolete when the owner gets it and not when his enemies get it

A better solution would be to bring back the 'ignore city walls' flag from civ2...Give it to all artillery from cannons and forwards...and all modern era units in general.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Tacit_Exit
Ok, I just downloaded and applied PTW 1.27f to get access to the readme, and it has the wall fix indicated under Fixes in v1.21f!?

But there are 2 sections of 'Fixes in v1.21f', and the fixes/changes list posted at Civfanatics here when 1.27f was released indicates it was a 1.27f change!?

I think its a readme typo.

Aha! Could well be, as I have only been able to look at the readme and not actually test anything as has been done at CFC (not that it mentions which version the test was for).

bongo - not a bad idea, as most Artillery can only weaken defenders and not kill them. This would make Cannons more effective - personally I think they are undereffective right now, but of course some may disagree. By the time of Arty I guess you'd expect Walls to be of limited value as well, seeing as Arty can always fire OVER the defenses.