Armies, one attack/defend value or one per unit?

[vmxa1]

AC army of elites with 4x. Sigh it has been awhile since I had any ivory.

[bongo]

Too bad, SoZ can be a lifesaver when you're short on iron and horses. Or if you just want to do some heavy warmongering

The ancient cavalry army is effective long after ancient cavalry itself become useless(well, they are still useful for fighting resistance, military police duty, CF-preventing and taking out weak units.)

[Arrian]

AC army of elites with 4x. I don't think I've ever gone so far as to have the pentagon in the ancient age.

24hp of 4.3.3. Ha. Ha-hah. Ha-hah-ha! MUWAHAHAHA!

/me writhes on the ground, screaming The PPppppoooOOOwwwwWWeR!

-Arrian

[vulture]

Just to make Theseus' point about mixed unit armies more explicit:

Consider an army of two medieval infantry (one elite*, one veteran) and one pike. You might think this has 9 hp worth of MI and 4 hp worth of pike in it. But the hps are shared out amongst the three units for each battle - so you get attacked, and the pike defends, losing 4 hp (for the sake of argument). Then a second attack comes in. Rather than having the MI defending, the army redivides up its 9 hp, so the pike still has 3 hp left. So you get to use the pikes higher defense for more than its 4 hp. Likewise, you get to use the higher attack of the MI for more than the 9 hp of MI you put in the army. This all falls apart if your army gets beaten in the first combat, but that isn't that common.

So a 2 MI, 1 pike army is very nearly as good as a 3 MI army on attack, and significantly better on defence.

[pauli]

arrian - actually, with pentagon but without academy, it's 5/3/3.

with the academy, it's 6/4/3, but if you still lack horses by the end of the industrial age, you've got bigger things to worry about than the a/d of your ancient cavalry army.

actually, maybe you don't...

[Cookie Monster]

Theseus you make a strong arguement for mixed armies!

I have only recently dabbled in mixed armies and am quite satisfied with their performance both on attack and defense.

[CiverDan]

There is one think to be careful of when using a mixed unit army. Dont attack when you might use all the HP of your attackers. Otherwise u will find yourself attacking with your pike/spear and will likely have a dead army. I have used horseman armies to attack walled cities on a hill with spears and lost 7 HP (not that improbable). If I had a spear (or impi which would make more sense and were Zulu) i am coming close to attacking with the Impi, not that good.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Arrian
AC army of elites with 4x. I don't think I've ever gone so far as to have the pentagon in the ancient age.

24hp of 4.3.3. Ha. Ha-hah. Ha-hah-ha! MUWAHAHAHA!

* Arrian writhes on the ground, screaming The PPppppoooOOOwwwwWWeR!

-Arrian

I have. The last two games of C3C I finished. Guess how I finished them? It's the same reason I had 4 AC armies by 1AD.

[Dis]

I still don't think mixed armies are all that useful. Esp. in the early game. They could be more useful in the late game if there are lots of stealth units around. You'd have to see how I use my armies to see why. I rarely leave them by their lonesome in a defenseless position.

[bongo]

Good point, I rather have an army of strong attacker protected by defensive units(even better, a devensive army) than having a mixed army that is stronger on defence but slightly weaker on offence. I'd hate to loose an army cause I have to do the last round of attacking with a pikeman.

Oh well, in the end it is a matter of style of play, I guess.

[Cookie Monster]

When attacking in force along a broad front offensive armies only backed by some single unit defenders are the order of the day.


When lashing out in desperation at an opponent when resources are limited a mixed army has the best chance of causing havoc and surviving to tell about it.


For me the latter is what I do only because the beginning of the game is a struggle for survival. It is only in the late game that I can afford to have luxuries such as the all offensive army and can attack an opponent with great numbers.

[chequita guevara]

I haven't been able to upgrade my units in my armies in C3C.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I haven't been able to upgrade my units in my armies in C3C.

When the folks talk about 'upgrading armies', they actually mean 'adding another (strong) unit'. Units in armies were/are not upgradable (design decision to prevent armies from being overpowered).

[vmxa1]

AFAIK you still cannot upgrade units in an army.

Armies with mixed units are very useful at the ealriest part of the game. If I get a MGL from say an archer and I make an army, I often have to fill it with mixed units as I do not have enough on hand to do otherwise. I can't wait for troops to get there fromfar away.

I take that army of say sword/archer/spear and now I can take down that town with only one or two defenders with no losses.
Without the army, I still take the town, but I could suffer losses. Since I will probably not have a massive number of units, I do not want to take losses here or I will soon not be able to press the war.
I admit, this is not a common scenario, but I have run into it a few times. They attack me, I do not get a leader and I am hard pressed to attack them. I get that leader and make an army and now I am able to do some real damage.
This is not a scenario for times, when I start a war and have the troops to back it up. It is more for when I am not in such great shape and would have preferred they have not jumped me. If I was strong, they would not have started the war in the first place.

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by vmxa1
AFAIK you still cannot upgrade units in an army.

Armies with mixed units are very useful at the ealriest part of the game. If I get a MGL from say an archer and I make an army, I often have to fill it with mixed units as I do not have enough on hand to do otherwise. I can't wait for troops to get there fromfar away.

This is not a scenario for times, when I start a war and have the troops to back it up. It is more for when I am not in such great shape and would have preferred they have not jumped me. If I was strong, they would not have started the war in the first place.

Exactly