Civ III: Conquests Patch Notice

[Tiberius]

Catt,

I'm sorry if I sounded rude. I didn't intend to. I understand that lots of people didn't like he changes and I respect their opinion. Making people evil or incapable of thought was NOT what I wanted to achieve.

However:
I said "I have the feeling that ... ". Can I have a feeling without proving it with numbers, please? There were posts like these:

So much for ultra-early rushes!!

I'd prefer it if they saved this new formula for Civ 4.

This combat system may be a good idea in the future.

that made me feel (and say) what I said. My interpretation was: "So, the idea might be good, but why do they have to apply it now, ruining my archer and horse rushes?" Of course, my interpretation might be wrong, but I didn't say: "you are idiots for not liking it", I said "I have the feeling that they don't like it because ... ". Not seing (from my PoV) a valid reason against the changes (horseman losing against sprearman is not a good reason, IMHO) I assumed that there must be another reason behind the negative reaction. For me, the whole thing sounded like a Coracle chorus: "Bad, BAD changes!". Sorry for that, but this is how a felt it.

Furthermore:
I said: "Why would the new rules detract from gameplay is beyond me." That means " I don't understand why would the new rules detract from gameplay", nothing more, nothing less. I still don't understand it. So stronger units will win more often. What's wrong with that?

Seing the numbers I can understand that maybe averaging 4 results is too much, and combat results may change too drastically. Averaging only 2 or 3 results may be better, indeed. I also like a lot Spencer's idea.

I can live with the current combat system. I always thought that it is too random, but I never said that it is broken. So, when I saw that finally Firaxis considered "fixing" it, naturally I was happy. Then it came a crowd yelling that the changes are bad, so I was a bit upset, as you can imagine. Please forgive me if I hurt anyone's feelings.

[DrSpike]

The nice property of firepower in Civ2 (and of course Spencer's variable averaging scheme) is that you can alter the chance of the strongest unit winning for inter-era fights without affecting intra-era balance.

Looking at it from both sides, it seems most people that have objections one way or the other can be happy with such outcomes. People that think spears should lose to tanks more often are happier, and those who quite rightly questioned whether averaging for all battles would break the balance within a given age would also have their main objection answered.

The only possible drawback is it's quite fiddly, for want of a better phrase.

Whether Firaxis would want to impose such a scheme when they have always strived to make the model used more simple, I'm not sure.

[Slax]

How did 'firepower' work mathematically?

[DrSpike]

I'll refer you to the Marquis de Sodaq's seminal piece. He pulled all the work done into a coherent whole.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22856

[Catt]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Please forgive me if I hurt anyone's feelings.

No hurt feelings here. I sent you a PM rather than clog up this thread with any further discussion about "discussion" rather than discussion about the patch!

Catt

[sabrewolf]

does this week mean friday?

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
does this week mean friday?

They should really release it tomorrow to corospond with the world wide opening of the Return of the King.

[DrSpike]

In this final part of the saga will the righteous Firaxians be able to thwart the evil corruption demon by throwing the ring of bad rank calculations into Mount Doom once and for all?

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by DrSpike
In this final part of the saga will the righteous Firaxians be able to thwart the evil corruption demon by throwing the ring of bad rank calculations into Mount Doom once and for all?

I hope so!

[Willem]

Re: Civ III: Conquests Patch Notice

Originally posted by JesseSmith


If additional issues present themselves we will
make every effort to release another BETA
update. We greatly appreciate your assistance in
notifying us of problems that you experience
(forum posts are the most convenient format).

What about fixing the Reduces Corruption wonder effect, and a few others, so that they shut off with a government switch? This was supposed to have been addressed a long, long time ago but it still persists.

As it stands, the Secret Police Headquarters could be used as a cheap exploit by anyone playing a Religious civ. Just switch to Communism long enough to start construction on the wonder, then switch back to Democracy and reap the benefits when it's completed.

And it creates some major limitations for modders who are trying to work with gov specific buildings.

[UnityScoutChopper]

Willem,

Although the broken Reduces Corruption flag is annoying, it is easy to avoid deliberately exploiting it (and if really wants to use exploits, there are many easier, earlier, and more powerful ones in the game). Meanwhile, the cases where one is faced with the choice between "accidentally exploiting" it or giving up a useful option (a switch out of Communism after a long stay within it) are rare and above all come late in the game.

I'd thus say this is bearable until the second patch. I do feel yo' pain, though.

USC

[Willem]

Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper
Willem,

Although the broken Reduces Corruption flag is annoying, it is easy to avoid deliberately exploiting it (and if really wants to use exploits, there are many easier, earlier, and more powerful ones in the game). Meanwhile, the cases where one is faced with the choice between "accidentally exploiting" it or giving up a useful option (a switch out of Communism after a long stay within it) are rare and above all come late in the game.

I'd thus say this is bearable until the second patch. I do feel yo' pain, though.

USC

Maybe so, but it still doesn't address the fact that this was supposed to have been fixed eons ago, like about the second or third vanilla patch. They fixed the wonder effects, but they didn't bother with the small wonder ones. In light of the fact that it's been such a long time since it was supposed to have been resolved, it should be a top priority.

I've been wanting to have a gov specific building that reduces corruption for a long, long time now. I keep hoping that it gets fixed everytime there's a new patch, but it never does. I'd say it's about time.

[Harovan]

I just want to say, that today was my last day at work until Jan 12th. You can release the beta patch now.

[Sarxis]

Heh, no kidding.

Is there an ETA yet? Agent Smith? (Jesse)

[asleepathewheel]

Can't wait. hoping its comes soon.