Emperor games C3C: how to improve your skills

[Mountain Sage]

Now King Ragnar's is pondering what the size of Odin's army is

For all the warmongers: enjoy it!

[Aqualung71]

MS....thanks for posting all those screenshots. Now I can compare with some of my saves around the same time.

You've made one thing very clear - I've got a lot to learn about how to achieve early dominance!

[Theseus]

Awesome game, MS!

When you warmonger, you surely are a mean b*stard after my own heart!

[Mountain Sage]

Why do you keep calling my military police practical training courses 'warmongering'?
My PP reputation is going downhill with the likes of you, you know?

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
Why do you keep calling my military police practical training courses 'warmongering'?
My PP reputation is going downhill with the likes of you, you know?

I think your "perfect peacenik" reputation is already shot MS. First you were one of the only ones to beat the Total War AU course, and now you go on a berserker frenzy. At the rate you're going I won't be surprised to see Theseus's signature quote popping up in your signature too.

[Mountain Sage]

'The world is changing, I feel it in the air, I feel it in the water ...'

[Mountain Sage]

Hi everybody,
Since nobody playing Emperor games seems to post games to be played, here's a new one, called "SAVE WILLY".

You will start as the Dutch, archipelago 70% water, 10 civs, large map.
Your land is a lush one: cattle, bison, reindeer, pigs, mice, elk etc.
Willy has the bad habit of going to war for eveything a bit material, as resources and luxuries.
Your role is to counsel him NOT to do it. In other words, save him from himself (no wars for luxuries/resources allowed, no cheating in having another civ declare war on you to grab a luxury 'by mistake').
Finally, to have his glory last forever, you must win by a diplomatic victory (even if other victories are allowed).
Are you taking the challenge?

PS: for those who play it nicely and find it a pain, there will be a reward at the end of the game....

[Mountain Sage]

Your first turn:

[lethe]

Ok, here goes.

4000bc: Settle on the spot. This reveals wheat on plains at 89. Set tax at 100% science, immediate goal is writing, long term goal is philosophy. Build order is Curragh, worker, granary. Worker runs to the sugar.

3950bc: Started mining the sugar.

3650bc: Amsterdam grows to size 2. Add 10% luxury, Curragh gets built and sent off. Sugar is mined, spend a minute pondering if I should skip roading it, but with another worker due in 3 I do road it.

3600bc: Curragh finds the edge of an island due west. But it continues the circle of our own lands first. Finding others is good, checking out our own island and seeing if it's inhabited by squatters or not is more important.

3500bc: Second worker gets built. Back at 100% science. 2nd worker goes to bg, 1st worker crosses river and prepares to irrigate to the wheat on plains.

3300bc: Amsterdam grows to 2 again. Future oil situation is looking good, as our island is apparently Sahara Resort.

3100bc: Rounding what I presume is the northern tip of the island. For variation the desert is over and is replaced by jungle. Well, spotted gems atleast. Though it's pretty likely some AI will have sailed to those before me unless I find a pump spot somewhere.

3000bc: The clearly drunk navigator on Curragh One reports that all reports of rounding the northern tip of our "island" were exaggerated, and that they are now, once again, moving north along the coast. Our cartographers want to rechristen this island to a continent.

2950: Information provided by someone in the know tells us that with a treasury of 10 we are the second wealthiest nation in the world.

2850bc: Contact with Hittites. These well known peace-lovers share our continent. They are three techs up on us. Bronze Working, Burial and Masonry.

2800bc: Granary finally built. Started on a brave settler.

2670bc: Even further north we spot the outskirts of a hittite town. Atleast they too get the joy of a boundless desert. I originally planned on making a camp 63 from Amsterdam, on the gold. But I need it on the coast to provide more curraghs. Or maybe I need the first one to provide military support. Still no idea if the world has those pesky sedimentary barbs, or the raging kind.

I also berate my scientists for fooling me into researching Writing with a real effort, as it at best seems like it will shave off 3-5 turns. Or none.

2590: Build a settler, send him to the gold 63 from Amsterdam. Also spot another Hittite border. This one probably 20+ tiles from the first one. Me thinks someone has gotten lucky with the huts.

2510: Build Rotterdam. They start work on a warrior. Research situation helped tremedously by a city on a gold bonus resource.

Hittite town is Harran. On what again my navigators theorize might be the northern end of our "island". I hold no hopes, as there is still some room before we need to upgrade our Curragh to an icebreaker to find a norhtern passage.

2390: Build a new settler. This ones runs off to 888 from Amsterdam. Which is next to a goody hut. We are clever and know goody huts right next to towns never contain barbarians. They might contain Hittites though, as they seem to have spread like a crud by now.

Curragh One once again reports having rounded the northern tip of our continent. They claim to have seen snow this time, so it might be substantial.

2350: Rotterdam builds warrior to explore eastern inland.

2310: Founded The Hague. They tried to start on a courthouse, already certain that Mursilis will be dragged here sooner or later. But alas they could not, so they settled for a leaky row boat preliminarily christened Curragh Two instead. They also learnt Ceremonial Burial from our advanced neighbours who lived in clay huts. Which must be a step up from our straw huts anyway.

2150: Amsterdam builds settler, who heads to 7777, which will put him next to both furs and a goody hut. Clever lad. Inland to the east is so beautifully green that we intend to go with OCP+Camps, or what is commonly known as Ralphing. As we are lousy at counting squares this is certainly going to end up as "Mursiliing", or putting your towns at just such a distance that there are always 4-5 unworkable squares between any three towns.

2070bc (aka turn 42): Finished writing with 18 gold in the bank. I am very uncertain if this was a win, could have done it 8 rounds later with probably 150-200 in the bank, which could have convinced Mursilis to give me a tech. Oh well. Philosophy in 15.

2030: Met Carthage, who gave us Bronze Working, Masonry and 10 gold for Writing. Mursilis gave us Warrior Code and 10 gold for Writing. Reached tech parity and better cash flow than our neighbours. Carthage warrior is on the thin isthmus leading to Hittites. Atleast I have a buffer against the notoriously unruly Hittites. But my buffer has Numidian Spearmen. Some ups and downs. Founded Utrecht, which netted 25 gold from clay huts. I wanted a tech. The entire idea of the Trading Writing Gambit was to get a tech lead. I will end up paying for this, I know it.

1990: We meet Scandinavia, who basically walked up to our towns from the east. All plans on OCP to the east abandoned in favour of a tight and secure 3-tile plan. Rotterdam builds third explorer Warrior and starts on a barracks.
We buy The Wheel from Scandinavia for Masonry and 18 gold.
The Hague builds Curragh Two. Which is sent off to look for the Scandinavian Homeland, which must lie to the east.

1950: We are the 6th most powerful nation in the world. Hittites in the lead. Scandinavia at 4th, Carthage at 8th!!! This becomes clear as we sweep by Utica. Carthage is in a jungle that dwarves the Amazon.

1910: Amsterdam builds Settler, which is sent to hill 669 from Amsterdam. Rotterdam production changed to settler, then barracks. Truly a thin expansion gambit going on here.

1830: We scale a mountain range to the east and see the Scandinavian border. Also a settler+spear going west toward the huge beautiful grassland with cows between us. Hopefully I will reach the cows before him.

1790: Founded Groningen. As they quite literally _only_ have forests to work they get to build a barracks.

1750: Rotterdam builds settler, who goes 22 to the gold hill on the coast. In the long run having a permanent town on a gold hill will cost, but I desperately need the research boost this will give for now. I might build only a barracks in the town and then move it off the gold hill once I am in a Republic. Oh well, decisions, decisions.

1650: Buy Iron Working and 53 gold from Vikings for Writing. I don't have Iron. The Vikings do though, and it's hooked up. I think I will soon be Ragnar's Tech *****.

1625: Finish Philosophy first. Take map mapking as free tech, start on Code of Laws which is due in 14.

1550: Founded Arnhem. The small archipelago just to the west looks liveable. And further west our brave captain of Curragh Three has found a bigger isle that just might be uninhabited. Atleast it has unpopped goody huts. Always a good sign.

1475: I find the Portugese north of the isle I suspect to be uninhabited. Trade them 30 gold and Writing for Mysticism, then Philosophy for Horseback Riding+52 gold. 2 techs and 22 gold to me. Change Rotterdams Barracks to a Granary. Cease production of settlers in Amsterdam and start on Great Lighthouse. With god willing this will open up some juicy trade lanes me thinks.

I find Aztecs. I am 7 techs up on those backward guys.
For the record:
4 techs up on Carthage and Hittites. 5 techs up on Vikings. 1 tech up on Portugal. No one else has Map Making.

1325: Discover Code of Laws. 10 turns to go on Mathematics.

1300: Mursilis scout arrives at us. Got a galley ready to ferry settler+spearman up north, just south of the 3-way junction between us, Carthage and Hittites is a lovely chokepoint. It's one tile wide there. That should leave me with only the Vikings to compete for land down here with.

Oh, the Island just south of Portugal was uninhabited, but so close to Lisbon that a flip is unavoidable. Further west is a large island with an unclaimed Iron though. If it's empty I might go live there.

1200bc: Hittites and Carthage both have Map Making, and Hittites are building The Great Lighthouse. Establishing an embassy reveals that they are doing it in a size 2 city working 2 irrigated grassland. My fears were overestimated.

Also our inventory clerk discover that we do have Iron. Groningen is on an iron hill.

All in all I sigh in relief this turn. Being the Netherlands means I don't have to really worry about any other resources before rubber.

1125: Contact with China. They are 5 techs down and have nothing to trade.

1050: Math complete. Started on Literature. No one has anything to trade, and except Portugal they are all miles behind.

950: Contact with Greece. Off course they got nothing to trade. Reports say I am world leader in tech, with Portugal close on my heels, Hittites third and everyone else about 5 techs behind.

Holwerd and Middleburg founded. Holwerd on a bonus grassland. The horror. But it was that, or loose contact with ether the cow or the sea. One less mineral for Holwerd it is. (In the end it's actually two less food, but that's far away still.) These cities, just like Arnhem, are building temples. Settler headed for the fourth spot on my will-be-border with the Vikings. Off course, we all know someone is going to sail around and settle a worthless city in the desert. Oh well.

925: Contact with Babylon. They are remarkably advanced, they are only four techs down. Somewhere there must be a trading partner.

875: Built Delft. Line against Vikings is now complete. Settler headed for a rendezvous with a spear and a galley to try and get the gems before the Carthaginians.

750: Discover Literature. Decide to go for The Republic. Done in 28. If anyone, ever, discovers a tech I can buy it from them.

730: Operation Jewel Heist is on. 4 turns sailing to do.

[Krill]

(no wars for luxuries/resources allowed, no cheating in having another civ declare war on you to grab a luxury 'by mistake').

Can you go to war to break a gpt deal, and not fight an aggressive war? I need to know, 'cos i have already done this by accident with out remembering the conditions.
I also have a good save game as the Maya, if anyone wants to have a look at it.

[lethe]

670: Good and bad news. Good news is we built Great Lighthouse. Bad news is that Carthage built Hadrumetum ON the gems. Oh well, going to have to trade for them then.

650: Den Helder built on an island next to the gems. Can I accept culture flips for resources if they happen? Also, this netted me Polytheism from the hut that popped when I plopped down Den Helder next to it.

610bc: I have a harbour. The only other person in the world to be this advanced are the Hittites. But off course, they forgot to build a road to their harbour city. Our craving for spices from the exotic north can't be satisfied!

530: We find Persia far, far away. They off course are 6 techs down and have nothing to trade. Careful analysis indicates that Portugal might eventually rise as a KAI, but I am pretty confident no one on my continent will.

We are also pretty confident that there is no lose floating island covered in jungle with no AI presence. If the RNG loves us there might be rubber in one of the four squares of jungle we have secured this far, but it seems unlikely.

Harlingen and Lauwersoog founded on the island just off Amsterdams coast. Galley loaded up to try and grab island off the Portugese coast. Maybe they'll flip, but I need space to expand.

470: Nothing major happened. Wonder cascade came to a grinding halt though, Hittites scored Oracle and Pyramids. Vikings got Mausolleum of Mausollos. Portugal has had the Colossus since the dawn of time. No one but me knows Polytheism... Or literature. If I wasn't surrounded by illiterate imbecilles I'd be tempted to build GL and go with 0 tech until Education. No one who has a half complete wonder both knows math and has ivory, so no Statue of Zeus yet either.

I'm dreaming of getting Sun Tzu, JSB and Sistine. With good pre-builds and a solid tech lead it might very well be possible! I think a symbolic war with the Aztecs would secure this. They are 8 techs down, haven't filled their own island, nor actually accomplished anything. I think a few Swiss Mercenaries will land there on general principle.

450: Greece declared war on Hittites. This probably means both will get a GA but nothing else will happen, as there are a full three tiles of coastal water between them. And we all know the greateness of IC conflicts for the AI.

430: Hittites have discovered Currency! A miracle has happened! I sell them Polytheism for Currency and 173 gold. I also sold Philosophy to Persia for 50g. Philo -> China for 49 gold. To not rob the Hittites of a good race I sell Polytheism to Babylon for Ivory and their entire treasury of 1g. Poly -> Greece for 29g. Philo -> Aztecs for 19g. (All they had, and I needed it for yet another embassy.)

Build Enschede, which pops a hut, giving me Construction and sending me into the middle ages. Portugal actually has Republic, but I won't give him the last two techs he needs to get to Medieval for it, as I only have 7 turns to go myself.

[lethe]

The cash netted in the above deals let me establish the last embassies, so now I am in close contact with everyone but the Aztecs. Getting to the middle ages in 430bc without having built a single library, not being expansionist and not really having had many shopping partners feels like quite an accomplishment.

That the map generator had the gall to call this map an archipelago is amazing. It has two huge continents, and very few small, scattered islands. There seem to be more to the north, but those are a bit _too_ far away. I am however tempted to load up a few galleys and claim the island east of the Aztecs. That would end up meaning I have to switch to Communism eventually though. Maybe not such a great idea. I'll ponder this while I fix a late dinner.

I just realized something! I am importing Ivory and no one is building the Statue of Zeus! A miracle, I will build it to deny the AI the use of it. (Hopefully I _won't_ build it, but use it as a prebuild for Sun Tzu.)

Edit: Carefully considering a deal with Portugal made me take the leap. I gave him Literature and Polytheism for Republic. He doesn't have math, so he still has 3 ancient techs to go before getting medieval.

[lethe]

290 ad: We built Statue of Zeus after all. Expansion phase is also complete, managed to get the entire desert, the isle south of Portugal and got a firm line drawn against the vikings. (Got my Forbidden Palace in a border town.)

Didn't opt for a forced Golden Age, I might after getting Sun Tzu's though. Hopefully this will also stop Wonder Cascade #2.

Current year is 370ad, and after the initially wonderful expansion and tech phase I've just been coasting.

[lethe]

440 ad: I build Sun Tzu's. Wonder cascade halts with Great Library built by Hittites, Leonardo's by the Portugese, Knight's Templar by the Carthaginians. (Not happy bout this one!)

I also just remembered that deserts are equivalent to plains when irrigated for agri civs. Makes my heartlands look alot better.

600 ad: Nothing much to report. Building universities everywhere. Upgraded all spears to Swiss Mercs. Building Sistine and JSB. Sold astronomy to lots of people for cash, and the techs on the lower branch I don't have. Working on Navigation to get all maps. Then it's banking and economics.

As we are a peaceful nation the cavalry from Zeus is used to run to the far north cities to help rush in improvements. 10 free portable shields every 5 rounds. Oh well.

640: Discovered Navigation. Got everyone's world maps in a wild trading spree. The Greeks are huge, but their land sucks.

720: Built Sistine Chapel in Arnhem. Economics in 1. Still got a 2-3 tech lead on everyone. Well, except Aztecs, they are still in the ancient age.

840: Built JSB. Currently working on Smith's and Newton's.

890: Finish off the middle ages, steam power in 8. Still got a 2-3 tech lead on everyone. Greeks are in second place, but they will fall behind when everyone else gets booming metropolises and they are stuck with towns in the desert. Had deals going with everyone for the last 60 turns, diplo victory should be "easy". Not been involved in even a minor skirmish. Only fighting that's been going on has been between Greeks and Hittites, and Greeks and Aztecs. (Dunno if the latter actually came to a single fight, they are kinda far from each other.)

Oh well, Nationalism is in the not-so-distant future, and should spice things up.

940: I build Smith's. 3 turns left on Newton's, but it's cascaded into Greek territory. Still got a chance on Magellan's. Better than nothing, and good denial.

970: Build Magellan's and discover Steam Power. Good thing I missed out on the gems and got the tiny island instead, because I have coal. Industrialization in 7. Using banks as factory prebuilds in virtually all cities.

Greece and Scandinavia (!!) make it into the Industrial Era.

1080: Started on US and a ToE prebuild.

1285: Built ToE and US. Entered golden age, and not that far to go on Hoover either. Got replacable parts before letting ToE take me to electronics.

Oh, I have multiple sources of rubber too.

1295: Selling Atomic Theory to Portugal for 593gpt! More than twice the total gpt that all the other civs give me. And I already had a 140gpt deal with Portugal.

1340: Built Hoovers. I wonder why I built Sistine as I then had 6 luxuries in trades, and still do. Built cathedrals in border cities, but Sistine doesn't help with that. Oh well, going to stuff cathedrals everywhere once I am done with important things, once the world wars break out there is no telling if I can keep trading for em all.

Edit: 10-15 more turns and all cities should be done with all builds and from then on be able to keep up as new things arrive on the scene. It's now 4am, and I have an appointmet with my doctor in 5 hours. Gotta sleep. (Fixing screenshots tomorrow hopefully.)

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Krill

Can you go to war to break a gpt deal, and not fight an aggressive war? I need to know, 'cos i have already done this by accident with out remembering the conditions.
I also have a good save game as the Maya, if anyone wants to have a look at it.

You can do as you please. This is not an AU course where the rules are a bit more tight
The whole purpose is to play it relatively nicely, as to be able to compare our achievements based on a common strategy (i.e. a peacenik game).

The Mayan save is of course welcome, as is any save of an interesting game. This is not 'my' thread after all, I'm just the caretaker.