Emperor games C3C: how to improve your skills

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by dexters
Any mods? Nice game BTW.

Thanks, and none. I like it 'pure'

[Aqualung71]

I've been distracted by Lethe's game on another thread and so have been avoiding reading this thread for the last few days as I don't want any spoilers. I finally got back to this game last night and played until 1330AD - here are a few comments.

Not going to war and spending your time building all those lovely goodies is fine, but actually knowing that you never want to go to war is a little harder to get used to! I don't have much experience at playing for Diplomatic victories, preferring to build the UN and shelve it permanently, so I must say I am a little unsure of the strategy required. Of course, the number one priority is to get the UN (since both Greece and Portugal are KAI's in my game and I won't catch their score), and that should be ok unless the AI jags an SGL at the right time. I've tried my hand at diplomacy, giving away techs left right and centre to the 5 civ's who are way behind and whose votes I'll need, but I can't for the life of me get them past polite.

I'm now researching Refining, so the Modern Age is beginning to loom. I have now begun to ask my "friends" for trade embargoes on Greece and Portugal with mixed success. My hope is that will reduce their attitude towards me, and perhaps even push them towards a military confrontation....and to that end I will soon start to make a few unreasonable demands (or plant some spies and send them on doomed missions). If that eventuates, I will then try to enlist my allies in military alliances. Beyond that, I'm not really sure how to guarantee they will vote for me.

Anyway, the Dutch have hit their straps and are moving steadily up through the ranks with their new-found techniques of closer city placement and utilisation of all available terrain spaces, together with a second government change into Democracy. For most of the game the Netherlands was the smallest civ, though has recently become 9th largest (but 1st in pop). Huge gpt deals selling industrial age techs to the leaders has allowed William to be a little less careful with his money than his reputation suggests.....erecting universities, cathedrals and factories all over the empire in record time and upgrading his mercenary army to national infantry (which has become very expensive ever since that damned "da Vinci" character defected to Portugal).

Once they caught up in techs in the early middle-ages, the culturally aware and scientifically superior Dutch have managed to build Sistine, JS Bach, Copernicus, Newtons, US, ToE and Hoovers.

Resources have not been a problem. The tech lead established has allowed us to perpetually renew our 20-turn luxury deals with smaller civ's without exception. The happiness wonders + cathedrals have also allowed us to keep our citizens happy without having to resort to handouts of any kind, boosting the research rate tremendously.

However, William is still not happy. In fact, he is decidely uneasy about the state of world affairs and despite his efforts to please, is still not at all certain who are his real friends and who may be potential enemies. This state of world peace is unnerving - are we witnessing the calm before the storm? Or has mankind truly learned to live together in harmony?

Only time will tell.

[dexters]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage


Thanks, and none. I like it 'pure'

Your welcome
I also. noticed your insane treasury. Is the gpt bug still active? If not, that's some nice trading you've done. I have a lot to learn.

[lethe]

Thriller: I don't know if it's possible to get past polite without gifting an entire era worth of tech. Unless you enter a MPP deal with them. If I want a 'sure' diplo win I enter lots of MPPs the turn before the UN is built, and after that gift them what I can. Which usually brings most up to gracious.

The higher the AI aggression level is, the harder this will be, as it might be difficult to enter more than a couple of MPPs without being sucked into the world war the coming turn. But otoh your rival is even more likely to be at war with hordes of potential voters.

[Aqualung71]

Ok, thanks Lethe. I think MS said he set the AI agression levels pretty low, so I don't know whether this is supposed to make "gracious" easier to obtain....though what it probably will mean is that there may not be so many wars to be concerned about when entering MPP's.

My habit is usually to avoid MPP's in favour of MA's, to avoid getting sucked into an unwanted war. In some cases though, the AI may not actually agree to a MA but will enter an MPP.

[DrSpike]

It's tricky to get them gracious with no common war. It is possible though if you keep trading with them, particularly for civs in your group. I had Greece gracious for most of the endgame.

[DrSpike]

Oh, and btw gifting them an entire age of tech doesn't help after the first tech. MPPs certainly do if you want to sign them near the end. However, everyone voted for me in my game except Henry, and I had no MPPs or RoP and only Greece were gracious.

[dexters]

The higher the AI aggression level is, the harder this will be, as it might be difficult to enter more than a couple of MPPs without being sucked into the world war the coming turn. But otoh your rival is even more likely to be at war with hordes of potential voters

Wouldn't that also mean the easier it is for the AI to self destruct by being too agressive?

The AI is never really good at wars where it is evenly matched. It forces the AI to stop building improvements and a government switch comes soon after that.

What I find are the hard games is an emergent AI superpower that is so large it can go to war with one hand tied to its back and not flinch. minimal impact to its economy. usually no gov switch. Add to that C3C's resource scarcity and AI happening to control every resource of something you need, and you see the picture. You're utterly dependent on it and the quest for independence is usually what drives these very fun games.

Sometimes, there's really no way out other times there are.

One example is my 1st full fledged C3C game. Pangea Standard. Only Monarch level. I started on one of 2 large Islands. Egypt was on the other. I went through the entire game without iron or coal. Had to trade for it from the superpower America which had basically wiped out everyone on the pangea and owned the whole continent.

As his power grew, the prices got more and more extreme. In my last grasp for independence, I organized-- at great coast, an invasion of Greece, which held a tiny chunck of the pangea and just happaned to have spices, coal and iron. If I took them, and then held it long enough, I could not pay the exhorbitent prices and perhaps live to fight another day (notice that there is no thought of winning. it was practically unwinnable at this point. ) But I persisted. After a long hard battle and finally winning Greece, America declared war on me right in the next turn, and ironically won by cultural victory.

Lesson for me. I like big AI superpowers. They're fun. And this is all on normal/standard agressive settings.

My point though is, I don't think a more agressive AI is neccessarily better. It might be on some occasions when you really need that pacifist AI neighbour but won't get it because of the super agressive AI. conversely however, If im doing quite well, too many wars just gives me lots of opportunities to play one side against the other, plan my long term strategy, pick my partners and cruise to victory.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by dexters

Your welcome
I also. noticed your insane treasury. Is the gpt bug still active? If not, that's some nice trading you've done. I have a lot to learn.

No, the bug is OFF.
Yes, I know. Just building city improvements it's so 'boring' that I trade a lot just for passing my time.
In fact, the secret of winning at Emperor is TRADING. Don't hold on any tech (except for a few turns if you plan to get a GW) and re-sell it immediately to everybody. With the gold, keep you citizens (moderately) happy = more gold and research at 70-80%. Then sell again. It's called a positive feedback.
Also, don't research 'useless' techs like Astronomy, Ironclads, Fascism etc., you will get them for free later on...
But I'm sure you all know about it anyway

[DrSpike]

Astronomy is crucial for Copes asap if you want to finish early. Also, amongst the optionals Sanitation is often worth a detour.

[Dominae]

I've had some good results with Military Tradition, too...

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Dominae
I've had some good results with Military Tradition, too...

Really? I used the results of it only lately in the game, but yes, it's moderately useful...

[ToeTruck]

First off, I had a great time with the last three games and finally now have a chance to post something.

I played the last William game as an OCC with a very similar timeline to Dominae's game. My game ended with a 1580AD Diplomatic victory which was a ton of fun.

I had ammassed about 20,000 gold but needed every penny to get out of the Industrial Age. I then had to mortgage the future to buy Fission from Greece which had become a serious KAI.

That left me with 208 gold when I called for a vote and I still had a -199 gpt deficit for another 10 or so turns.

Anyhow, there was no way I was going to get a spacerace victory with just one city at that point. So, I settled for diplo.

Thanks MS and good games everyone. I look forward to the next start position.

- TT
(William the Lion-Hearted OCC player)

[vmxa1]

Good to see you are still playing. I enjoyed your Occ runs.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by ToeTruck
I played the last William game as an OCC with a very similar timeline to Dominae's game. My game ended with a 1580AD Diplomatic victory which was a ton of fun.

Did you do your own research, or go for the "steal everything" route?


Dominae