Statue of Zeus

[pauli]

Originally posted by Dominae
Hate to break it to you guys, but the SoZ is no more powerful than Pyramids or the Temple of Artemis or the new Great Wall, and they all have no resource requirement. Securing a powerful Wonder should be a race as to which civ can acquire the most Shields (and the necessary tech), not which is lucky enough to start next to Ivory.

When you start next to Ivory, there is simply no decision whether or not you want the Statue of Zeus. It's more a matter of where and when (and that's a boring boring decision). What could potentially be an interesting Wonder in every game is now only interesting in those games the map generator bestows Ivory upon your starting location (less than once every eight games). Those of you who do not think this is such a big deal have surely reloaded until you've found that Ivory start just so that you could build the SoZ. Are you prepared to do that every game?


Dominae

actually, in my current game i a: forgot that i'd need ivory for the statue, and b: coincidentally spotted the nearest luxury i knew of - ivory - about 30 squares away right next to the mongols. luckily, i managed to capture one before they got them all. there were horses not far away, but they were in mongol territory before i could get them (and that's kinda far from home to pick a fight!).

i'm finding the need for ivory to be something of a goad to builders - you usually *have to* expand to get some now.

there is an opportunity for mod writers now, though - either a: make zeus a small wonder with no ivory req, or b: make a series of wonders that each require a specific luxury resource and each provide a specific oddball unit. either one would really spice things up.

[WarpStorm]

Originally posted by pauli

there is an opportunity for mod writers now, though - either a: make zeus a small wonder with no ivory req, or b: make a series of wonders that each require a specific luxury resource and each provide a specific oddball unit. either one would really spice things up.

I like the latter option better. I am in the camp of "Screw fairness! Give me a little more variety."

[Dominae]

Originally posted by pauli
there is an opportunity for mod writers now, though - either a: make zeus a small wonder with no ivory req, or b: make a series of wonders that each require a specific luxury resource and each provide a specific oddball unit. either one would really spice things up.

You forgot c: make Zeus require no resources to build, just like every other Great Wonder.


Dominae

[vmxa1]

I am not sure how to rate the great wonders, as all can be very useful and you can win without any individual one.
Having said that, I can say it is much easier to win with Zeus than with the Great Wall.

Being able to cut back on troop builds alone is a huge boost. Ordinarily the wonder building city will have to make some troops, now it does not. It will still generate an AC at the same rate it would have build a horseman (more or less) and still be free to do something else.

How this compares to the free granary, I am not sure, but I am only an occasional builder of the Pyramid anyway.

I can only say that if you offer me a free ancient wonder, I am taking Zeus. Yes, I do not get it all that much and can still win, but it is so much more fun. Is the GW fun?

[Nor Me]

I heard that the AI spends too many cities on wonders in the ancient age. Dropping the ivory requirement from the Statue of Zeus would make this worse.

In answer to 1), if it works like it did in PTW, the cost of ivory will go up for every 5 cities for the Statue until it's been built. That sounds sensible as I've heard reports of players buying ivory just for it.

[vmxa1]

Yes I have made a deal to get ivory for that purpose.
I have not looked at it, but I suspect that having so many wonders now in the ancient age is a problem for the AI. Why wouldn't it be, it is a problem for me. We at least have enough sense to pick and choose, but since the gov wants to start any wonder it knows about, I would not be surprised to find out the AI does have too many cities working on them. Cities that have no shot at completetion.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Just my comments on this:

Current C3C game, Monarch, as the Byzantines.

I found that my continent had 4 others on it (Greece, Carthage, Egypt, nearest neighbour was Rome), but, now I have explored (and conquered ) it completely, I have found there is a single Horse resource and only two Iron. The other continent (3 civs) has the other 8 Horse and 7 Iron. Without the Temple I would not have had ANY mounted units - in fact I did not see any other civ with a Mounted or Iron unit throughout my little Napoleon scenario-style conquest.

Luckily, the continent has 5 lux, 4 of which were really close - including Ivory, so I got Zeus as my only Ancient Wonder. I just wanted to stress how incredibly useful this Wonder is, as it gave me the speed of Horses where there were none before, and they came in far far more useful in killing NMs and Hoplites than Crusaders (I also got the Knights Templar ). Whereas in PtW I am used to there being more than enough Horses at least around for everyone, this was a godsend (literally, in the game!). Crusaders were a bit slow on a large map, but in an army they waded through city defenses with barely a scratch to show afterwards.

I would consider Zeus and the Ancient Cavalry as nothing spectacular if you can get Horse units anyway, but if you have no Horses they really make the difference, and you should use them them to GET Horses for the next age.

[CerberusIV]

Having now had both Statue of Zeus and Knights Templar (in different games) I think they add something to the game. SoZ is potentially helpful to a smaller civ that just happens to have the resource to build it whilst the benefit to a larger civ that can build a powerful military anyway is proportionately less.

My current game has a long continent with the Chinese in the north (last in tech), then the Vikings with SoZ, then Carthage then me playing as the Dutch. I eliminated the Ottomans. Despite having SoZ the Vikings have got nowhere against the others and are possibly the weakest civ on the continent so it isn't a gamebreaker by any means.

I got KT and am about to try a Crusader army.

Incidentally the AI is better. The Carths marched past my border city to pillage a luxury rather than try and attack Swiss Mercs fortified behind walls. They only started attacking the Swiss AFTER I finished off a longbowman and triggered my GA with one.