Scientific Leader

[Dis]

I just really hate it when they beat me by 1 or 2 turns. It drives me bonkers. It's like they know I'm about to finish.

They did that last night to me with Copernicus', but I just researched theory so I switched to Newton's.

[vee4473]

yes, most of the time i get beat it is within 1-4 turns of me completing it.

most dubious

[jackshot]

Originally posted by RobC
Perhaps you could try a mod where leaders are buildable, but cost some outrageous amount (more than any wonder)...then perhaps they will be capturable. (although I notice in the editor that there is only one 'leader' unit that has 'build army', 'finish improvement' and 'science age' all checked, so the difference between SGLs and MGLs may be hard-coded meaning if you can capture one you can capture both...)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can make a buildable leader in C3C. You could in PTW. The "finish improvement" switch is there, but it doesn't seem to work - at least I've had no luck.

[vmxa1]

Does not seem to work for MGL, they can't seem to build anything but armies.

[RobC]

Strange...after playing around with leaders in the editor, it seems like:

1) Leaders added to the map using the editor can rush wonders and build armies, but cannot rush normal improvements and cannot start scientific ages

2) You can't remove any of the special action flags (build army, finish improvement, science age) or the 'leader' unit ability, or the unit will no longer be able to do anything

[vmxa1]

I just tried using a MGL to rush a temple and that worked in an "epic" game. I could have sworn I tried in this game to rush another non-wonder structure and it would not let me.

[dexters]

I got 2 in my current game. Good stuff.

[kring]

Originally posted by jackshot


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can make a buildable leader in C3C. You could in PTW. The "finish improvement" switch is there, but it doesn't seem to work - at least I've had no luck.

I know in Civ3, for a Leader to be buildable, you had to choose a different option for Battle Created Unit in place of Leader. I haven't tried this in Conquests yet to see if it still holds true.

Originally posted by RobC
Strange...after playing around with leaders in the editor, it seems like:

1) Leaders added to the map using the editor can rush wonders and build armies, but cannot rush normal improvements and cannot start scientific ages

2) You can't remove any of the special action flags (build army, finish improvement, science age) or the 'leader' unit ability, or the unit will no longer be able to do anything

I removed the Science Age flag in a quick mod. In testing the mod, I also changed the Battle Created Unit to Army, gave the Leader a cost of 1 for quick building.

Results. It could rush Great Wonders, but not improvements; it could also create Armies once I had 4 cities in play. It also couildn't start a Scientific Age. I was able to build it from the start since I didn't place any tech requirements on it.

[RobC]

It looks like the battle created unit thing was what I missed. However, whether or not you have science age checked, it seems have the same behavior (build armies or rush wonders only)...also, leaders don't seem to be capturable even if they are buildable by all, and are not the battle created unit -- it's possible that it's hard-coded for units with the 'leader' ability to be destroyed when attacked.

[kring]

Originally posted by RobC
It looks like the battle created unit thing was what I missed. However, whether or not you have science age checked, it seems have the same behavior (build armies or rush wonders only)...also, leaders don't seem to be capturable even if they are buildable by all, and are not the battle created unit -- it's possible that it's hard-coded for units with the 'leader' ability to be destroyed when attacked.

I noticed the Science Age issue when I tried the leader both ways.

[joncnunn]

I don't get beat out to wonders that I invest a lot of shields building in my games; instad its the AI that gets beat out by the 1-4 turn margin.

Of course, this was before SGLs and I don't know if the AI is smart enough to almost always use them for GLs. But I'm guessing the AI will probably mostly use them for boosting science.

Originally posted by vee4473
yes, most of the time i get beat it is within 1-4 turns of me completing it.

most dubious

[Panag]

Originally posted by joncnunn
I don't get beat out to wonders that I invest a lot of shields building in my games; instad its the AI that gets beat out by the 1-4 turn margin.

Of course, this was before SGLs and I don't know if the AI is smart enough to almost always use them for GLs. But I'm guessing the AI will probably mostly use them for boosting science.

hi ,

unfortunatly the answer is no , .....

it would be nice to see the AI use them better when the level goes up , .......

Firaxis , .....

have a nice day

[statusperfect]

Originally posted by Traelin


Hrm one thing I've always wondered but would forget to ask is whether or not the AI uses GLs to RB Wonders. Does anyone have verifiable evidence that they do?

I've been investigating AI cities to see if they can compete with me in some wonders just to find they have been rushbuilding them a turn later.

[Donegeal]

Was playing as the Maya today. Got a SGL with the first tech I researched. Since the Maya start with Masonry, I used him to rush build the Pyramids in the year 3450 BC!!!!

Fanes7 eat your heart out!

Only problem with this is that the Maya are Ind and Ag. Building the Pyramids put me in a GA. I still only had one city!

[Arrian]

Was playing as the Maya today. Got a SGL with the first tech I researched. Since the Maya start with Masonry, I used him to rush build the Pyramids in the year 3450 BC!!!!

Fanes7 eat your heart out!

Only problem with this is that the Maya are Ind and Ag. Building the Pyramids put me in a GA. I still only had one city!

I've been hoping for something like that to happen for me, though not with a Ind/Ag or Ind/Rel civ, to avoid the GA thing.

I like the idea of picking a commercial civ and researching up the writing path at full speed. That pretty much guarantees you're first to writing, philo, whichever bonus tech you chose from that (CoL), etc. It's yet to pay off with a SGL for me, but it's still useful anyway. The Iroquois rock.

I was playing Sumer last night and triggered my GA via wonders... the weird part is *which* wonders.

Sumer = Ag/Sci.
Wonders built = Great Library (Sci, check), Sistine Chapel, Leonardo's, Knights Templar, and the Hanging Gardens... and upon HG completion, I entered my GA. In PTW the HG was Industrious. Is it now Agricultural too?

Sumer is ok, not great. I gotta try a Seafaring civ next. Maybe the Dutch (I've quickly fallen in love with Agricultural) or English, or Byzantines...

-Arrian