Scientific Leader

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by Traelin


Hrm one thing I've always wondered but would forget to ask is whether or not the AI uses GLs to RB Wonders. Does anyone have verifiable evidence that they do?

Yes. At least in PTW they did. I established an embassy once with a civ. The city picture of the capital showed a partially finished wonder and a GL among the units in the city. Next turn, they built the wonder there.

[Plotinus]

I have, in the past, traded an advance to the AI and the AI has built the Great Wonder that required that advance the very next turn. So it must have either been prebuilding the thing or have used a Great Leader. I don't believe the AI prebuilds.

[vmxa1]

Not really, but it sure looks like it to me. ONe wonder was not showing as under construction and a few turns later it was completed, so I got to conclude it was rushed or the F7 is not working.

OK I should add I could have been wrong, blind or confused.

[kring]

Originally posted by Traelin


Hrm one thing I've always wondered but would forget to ask is whether or not the AI uses GLs to RB Wonders. Does anyone have verifiable evidence that they do?

Yes, they do. I was using debug mode a long time to see if the AI would use GL's in this manner, and they did on several occasions. I was watching the AI cities building Wonders.

[RobC]

Originally posted by mimi
Then a couple games later (I get bored easily) I see a popup and there's the guy in the black suit again. Very cool and he can't get killed like my military ones always did...

Hmm...I'm pretty sure that Scientific Great Leaders can be killed just like Military Great Leaders (although if you ask me, I think it would be cooler for SGLs to be capturable -- after all, the US did 'obtain' a great deal of scientists from Germany after WWII...)

[ZargonX]

Scientific leaders are killable, I believe. I think the point is that they are less likely to be killed, as they spawn within your cities as opposed to in a warzone

[Inverse Icarus]

yeah, they spawn in your capital.

if you're ahead on the tech race and lose your capital, or move (up to 2 moves, i believe) into the enemy's range, you're stupid, and deserve to lose him.

[Backpack]

Originally posted by RobC


Hmm...I'm pretty sure that Scientific Great Leaders can be killed just like Military Great Leaders (although if you ask me, I think it would be cooler for SGLs to be capturable -- after all, the US did 'obtain' a great deal of scientists from Germany after WWII...)

OOOhhhhhhh - I Like that Idea! - Admitably, it would be a rare event .

Change #1 - SGL's are capturable like settlers and Arty.

Change #1.5 - Captured SGL's cannot rush Great Wonders, but may rush small wonders and contribute only to a lesser science bonus - say 10 turns or a single city.

Change #2 - SGL's appear in the city producing the greatest Science Contribution (More realistic, and greater possibility of that city falling)

1.5 and 2 may require a patch to become workable.


Actually - Poking around in the editor - the generic unit 'Leader' already has a defense of 0, which according to the help file implies that leaders are already capturable - It may be that in PTW the AI was always disbanding captured MGL's just like it would often disband captured workers. - so .... SGL's may already be in the capturable catagory.

Anyone in the know care to comment?

Thanks

Kevin P.

[Louis XXIV]

In vanilla civ, they got killed. Think about Artillery. If you don't have the tech, but capture Artillery, it gets destroyed. GLs are produced without a tech, so you can never build them. Thus they get destroyed (try attacking an enemy scout with a expansionist civ, than try without the expansionist ability).

[RobC]

Perhaps you could try a mod where leaders are buildable, but cost some outrageous amount (more than any wonder)...then perhaps they will be capturable. (although I notice in the editor that there is only one 'leader' unit that has 'build army', 'finish improvement' and 'science age' all checked, so the difference between SGLs and MGLs may be hard-coded meaning if you can capture one you can capture both...)

[kring]

Originally posted by RobC
Perhaps you could try a mod where leaders are buildable, but cost some outrageous amount (more than any wonder)...then perhaps they will be capturable. (although I notice in the editor that there is only one 'leader' unit that has 'build army', 'finish improvement' and 'science age' all checked, so the difference between SGLs and MGLs may be hard-coded meaning if you can capture one you can capture both...)

I had a buildable leader mod way back in Civ3. I will try this later tonight and see what happens. I don't know if it is still true, but in Civ3, you had to make something else available for the Battle Created Unit or the Leader wouldn't show up.

[Dis]

so the only way to rush a great wonder is using a scientific leader?

Or did they change it so you can use gold again?

[kring]

Originally posted by Dissident
so the only way to rush a great wonder is using a scientific leader?

Or did they change it so you can use gold again?

SGL's are the only way to rush Wonders.

[Dis]

The ai seemed to be building wonders like crazy. And I was only playing warlord level yesterday. I think they may have lowered the cost, or somehow beefed up city production.

I've been able to build a few, so I can't complain. But I have yet to get a scientific leader. I'm still not all that happy with the wonder building model. But oh well.

[vee4473]

I have gotten frustrated not being able to ruch buy wonders when i started playing civ3 over civ2, but all in all, i think it is better to not be able to rush buy the wonders.

Although I must admit that I find myself staring at the monitor in awe and paranoia sometimes as I watch ai civ after ai civ beat me to wonder after wonder.