Luxury Scarcity

[Catt]

I'm still playing my first game - and playing with a spirit of experimentation rather than trying to win efficiently (RL has kept me from much gaming). I've just recently confirmed that I have maps of all available land, and unless my particular game is very flukey, I've come across what so far has to be one of the larger changes from PTW to C3C (though I hesitate to get too breathless with such little actual experience).

I selected "middle" map features on a random standard map with the standard 8 civs: Continents, 70%, temperate, 4 billion, etc. Using CTRL-SHFT-M to make sure I'm not missing any luxuries, I count as few as 3 instances of several luxuries, and the most widely available luxury has only 5 sources available. Specifically, of the eight available luxuries, 4 have 4 sources, 3 have 3 sources, and 1 has 5 sources. In PTW you could pretty much count on having 8 instances of all eight luxuries in an 8-player game. The consequences of the scarcity should be quite severe!

Did I draw a fluke or can others confirm a new approach to luxury availability?

Catt

[vmxa1]

I can't say at this time, but you could go to the editor and gen up a few maps and see what they have for a better feel.

[Jaybe]

Wow, luxury occurance scarcity would really work well if there was increased lux variety (tobacco, etc).

[Catt]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I can't say at this time, but you could go to the editor and gen up a few maps and see what they have for a better feel.

Great idea! I only bothered to generate 2 C3C maps and one PTW map, but the new luxusry scarcity would seem to be true. In both C3C maps, there were limited luxury sources; in the one PTW map, there were plentiful luxuries.

Originally posted by Jaybe
Wow, luxury occurance scarcity would really work well if there was increased lux variety (tobacco, etc).

There aren't actually any new luxuries -- tobacco, sugar, oasis, bananas, etc. are just bonus resources (like wheat, cattle, fish, etc.)

If my initial game is of any validity as an indicator of things to come, it is going to be a lot harder to achieve hordes of happy citizens (if only because certain luxuries never hit the market -- they are traded AI-AI and apparently renewed quite frequently).

Catt

[playshogi]

The AI will not automatically renew trade deals any more, either. In prior versions, the AI always renogiated a different price, but the deal would always go through. Not now.

[eric2075]

I'm playing my first game with Conquests also and from what little I've seen so far the luxuries do seem to be pretty scarce.

[MrWhereItsAt]

I recently spent a little time on generating maps with the latest version of the PtW editor and noticed that there need not be as many of each lux as there were civs, but it is possible that C3C has even fewer occurrences of luxuries again.

[joncnunn]

I'm thinking the decreased frequently of luxaries was to make possesion of them (and the new GWs that also make citizens happy) more important.

[Catt]

Re: Luxury Scarcity

Originally posted by Catt
In PTW you could pretty much count on having 8 instances of all eight luxuries in an 8-player game.

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
I recently spent a little time on generating maps with the latest version of the PtW editor and noticed that there need not be as many of each lux as there were civs, but it is possible that C3C has even fewer occurrences of luxuries again.

Yup - my first comment was an overstatement. Back in vanilla Civ it was common to see 8 instances of 8 luxuries. In PTW it was common to see an average of 6 instances of each of the 8 luxuries. Looks to me in C3C (just from the editor) that it will be common to see an average of 4 instances of each of the eight luxuries. (All on standard maps - haven't looked at others).

I'm not sure how it will play out, but to me this seems to have the potential to change the game in sometimes subtle but sometimes "in your face" ways.

Catt

[Sarxis]

Time to whip out the Colonies.

But I think I like the scarcity- forces your hand with luxuries, just like it should.

[Faboba]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Wow, luxury occurance scarcity would really work well if there was increased lux variety (tobacco, etc).

Actually it really wouldn't if you think about it.

Consider;

Let us say we have 12 luxury resources. We have a standard map with 8 civs and 3 or 4 occurances of each resource.

By rights no civ will have all luxuries and all civs will have at least one.

If the vast benefits ( happiness wise ) were maintained making a grand total ( for a full house ) of 1+1+2+2+3+3+4+4+5+5+6+6= 42 happiness per turn.

The larger civs already have an insane advantage when it comes to science, production and influence in diplomacy. If there were even more luxuries - logically - larger civs would have them in the greatest quantities while the smaller civs would only have one or two and be unable to afford others. This means that there is an even greater slant late-game towards those who expand early and who engage in military conquest.

That isn't all that great. I'd prefer things the way they are to the alternative.

[Theseus]

This will likely foster the development of KAIs as well... haves versus the havenots.

[Shogun Gunner]

I concur with the scarcity of luxuries....based on seeing three random maps.

Also agree that's an improvement if it holds true.

[Dominae]

Just a guess, but I think some Luxury instances were remove to make room for the new Bonus resources (Sugar, etc.) Whether or not this makes you "happy" is up to you.




Dominae

[justjake73]

The lack of luxuries is getting me very angry, and I am on the verge of complaining to Firaxis about it.

I couldn't care less about sugar and tobacco - I want wine and ivory!!!!!!!