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WW II in the Pacific

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  • WW II in the Pacific

    I played this conquest as Roosevelt of the Americans. It was quite a different experience than any I have had in Civ. Imagine sitting down at the computer and blindly taking over someone’s game (and a purposely poorly played one at that) about 200 turns in. It is wildly disorienting at first. Not only do you start with around 100 different units, but they are largely naval units with a handful of air, ground and anti-aircraft. Many of the units are already at sea on their way to … something … I couldn’t quite tell. And except for a few industrial powerhouse West Coast cities (and they are powerhouses) your “civ” consists of lots of small island holdings throughout the map.

    The game starts at the “end” of a turn. Since I am able to tell the future, and suspected something bad was going to happen next turn, I started the conquest by simply taking stock of each city, changing build orders (“hold on a minute governor, you’re building libraries?”), and getting a grasp on the layout the map and my unit positions. Then I hit the “end of turn button”. I do not want to give away specifics of the initial Japanese attack, but it was quite a different experience seeing AI marines and paratroopers take part in massive attacks – not to mention coordinated AI naval movement. And because this was not “my game”, but one that mimics the surprise and (as note above) poorly defended cities of the Pacific Theater, you get a bit of an initial waxing. And when you start moving air and naval units to your defense, you will note with some distress the large stacks of the Japanese fleet which seem to be situated in the fog of war, everywhere right off your Pacific holdings poised for a second wave.

    Some quick and random thoughts:

    The light tanks are very cool, with excellent sound and graphics, but (I don’t remember the stats) less powerful than their regular counterpart. Marines are beefed up, which is quite excellent.

    You start without Amphibious Warfare (which was first tech I researched), any transports to speak of, very few land units, and are outmatched on the sea and in the air, so taking back holdings is no cake walk.

    It took me a while to get a grasp on that level of naval warfare, and I certainly have not completely. In the average Civ experience your navy has never been that important, and certainly not that large, so this was as exhilarating as it was daunting, and I made plenty of stupid unit losing mistakes.

    There are a couple of workers in the game (very randomly placed), but I found no real use for them.

    Locked alliance is an excellent concept. I am looking forward to the Modders getting their hands on that.
    Last edited by TheArsenal; November 7, 2003, 15:15.
    "Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription is ... more cow bell!"

  • #2
    I had the exact same feeling of being completely overwhelmed when starting this game. Playing as Japan, I had a ton of units. This sounds great, except its hard to absorb everything quickly and make good opening attack moves when you have so many units that you didn't position yourself.

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    • #3
      I looked at the scenario but haven't played it through yet. It did indeed seem a bit overwhelming at first. It seems like the kind of scenario that you can't just play casually, you have to really sit down and think about every unit.
      'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
      G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

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      • #4
        As someone who's pretty familiar with the circumstances of Japan's attacks aftre Pearl harbor, I was amazed at the historical accuracy of it all. If you play your cards right you can take Singapore in 2 turns, which is just about right, and then there are the two British battleships loitering there for you to bomb. My only gripe is that the carriers are too small - they only carry three planes each, which somehow seems insufficient. 6 carriers bearing down on Pearl and I can only carry 18 planes?

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        • #5
          It’s good to know that it is historically accurate. I would have guessed as much - the individual naming of the American naval vessels alone show they put some real time into this. But, at least from playing the American side, as a Civ player you can’t help but look at the situation and laugh at what a mess you’ve been put into, and how you could never screw things up that much on your own.

          Also – after the first turn I restarted that conquest again. It seems to me the Japanese attack started a little, but not radically, different. I don’t recall seeing paratroopers, the first time for instance. But that could be down to it being very late last night. Can someone confirm this? If that is the case, it massively helps the scenario’s replay value.
          Last edited by TheArsenal; November 7, 2003, 16:42.
          "Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription is ... more cow bell!"

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          • #6
            Re: WW II in the Pacific

            Originally posted by TheArsenal
            Imagine sitting down at the computer and blindly taking over someone’s game (and a purposely poorly played one at that) about 200 turns in. It is wildly disorienting at first. Not only do you start with around 100 different units, but they are largely naval units with a handful of air, ground and anti-aircraft.
            Now you can imagine how a grognard feels when he plays a grand wargame!

            I think this is cool that a complicated scenario is included in a civ type game
            signature not visible until patch comes out.

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            • #7
              Re: Re: WW II in the Pacific

              Originally posted by Cookie Monster
              Now you can imagine how a grognard feels when he plays a grand wargame!

              I think this is cool that a complicated scenario is included in a civ type game
              Charlie Kibler (the scenario's designer) goes WAY back in the wargame community. Prior to Breakaway, he worked at Talonsoft and before that Avalon Hill. With talent like his applied to Civ3, it's no wonder the WWII scenario is a beauty.
              "Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
              "I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
              "Stuie is right...." - Guynemer

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              • #8


                Now I must admit I didn't take the time to find out about the various authors to the scenarios. Charlie Kibler did the WW2 scen in C3C? Yes I know who he is. As a wargamer myself, not a grog, all I can say is Wow!
                signature not visible until patch comes out.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by publius
                  My only gripe is that the carriers are too small - they only carry three planes each, which somehow seems insufficient. 6 carriers bearing down on Pearl and I can only carry 18 planes?
                  A plane unit in civ doesn't represent a single plane, and a carrier unit doesn't represent a single carrier. They represent groups, squadrons, fleets, whatever. And Axis and Allies only allows 2 "planes" on each "carrier"!

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                  • #10
                    this scenario feels a lot like some of the scenarios back in the Civ2 FW days. Ah, the nostalgia.
                    Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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                    • #11
                      i understand they're supposed to represent units of planes, but three is still awfully few - i think the planes still aren't as powerful as they should be against naval units, which should basically be sitting ducks without air cover. in the battle of midway, american planes from three carriers were able to sink four japanese carriers and a cruiser. that can't happen with only 3 planes per CV...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by publius
                        i understand they're supposed to represent units of planes, but three is still awfully few - i think the planes still aren't as powerful as they should be against naval units, which should basically be sitting ducks without air cover. in the battle of midway, american planes from three carriers were able to sink four japanese carriers and a cruiser. that can't happen with only 3 planes per CV...
                        Actually, allow me to differ. I've seen it happen, what with the "heftier" planes in "WWII in the Pacific" and with the Lethal Sea Bombardment Flag turned on. Of course, it'll depend on the quality and type of planes, and the quality and type of targets. :-)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cookie Monster


                          Now I must admit I didn't take the time to find out about the various authors to the scenarios. Charlie Kibler did the WW2 scen in C3C? Yes I know who he is. As a wargamer myself, not a grog, all I can say is Wow!
                          Well, well ... tickle me pink.

                          Glad ya'll are finding the scenario ...ah... interesting. I suggest multiple playings -- and (believe me) each playable side gives you a totally different gaming experience. Enjoy!

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                          • #14
                            Charlie

                            What tricks did you try/ or are possible to simulate the Japanese surprise advantage during the early years of the war.

                            I was thinking maybe start the ships with one few hit points or something?

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                            • #15
                              Hey guys, isn't this an awesome conquest? I posted some detailed info on my game a few days ago. Here it is...



                              I am having a blast with it
                              -PrinceBimz-

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