Gamespot's C3C civilization profiles

[vmxa1]

Well said Randolph

[raen1978]

Originally posted by Randolph
Predetermined traits are not something that is going to change. People really need to stop complaining about things like this. Everyone needs to come to grips with the fact that Civilization has nothing to do with actual history.

When gameplay buts heads with historical realism in civ development they always go with gameplay. If you want sacrifice gameplay for realism look elsewhere. Complaining that England has the wrong traits is like arguing that there is something wrong with Chess because bishops really can't move ten times faster then kings. Civ is a game with some quaint similarities to actual history; it is not a historical simulation.

I certainly hope that Conquests stick to what civ is good at, being a fun and challenging strategic game, and leaves historical simulation to titles that do it a lot better. From what I have heard it looks like they are doing just that.

Good text also But you missed one little detail, Many people Buy the game exaclty because of historical simulation (in my opinion).

But as I said, we edit, no problem

[Saint Marcus]

The seafaring+commercial combination in the game perfectly lends itself to the power of English commerce as an island nation. In fairness, one might argue that the Dutch should be commercial and seafaring as well, but there should be little denying that the English should be the foremost holders of that trait combination.

Not quite. Eventhough England was and is quite commercial, there's little denying that the Dutch were (and are) extremely commercial.

First international trading company: Dutch East Indian Company (the english followed later)
First company to give out shares: Dutch East Indian Company (once again, the english followed later)
First stock exchange: Amsterdam Stock Exchange (and once more, the english followed later)
First (and for a long time the only) European country to trade with Japan: Holland
Biggest seaport during the age of discovery: Amsterdam
Biggest seaport in the 20th century: Rotterdam
Main economic engine for Holland in the 20th century: Trade

etc, etc, etc.

We've always been extremely commercial, so much that it found it's way into the stereotypes of what the Dutch are like. IMHO, the English are better of having a combination of 2 out of seafaring (Royal Navy), expansionistic (British Empire), industrial (Industrial Revolution).

[Panag]

hi ,

Saint Marcus , dont forget about the villages in today Brazil and the US of A , the best example , todays NY , .....

not to mention the printing press on a large scale (!)

have a nice day

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
First (and for a long time the only) European country to trade with Japan: Holland

Just a nitpick: the Portuguese arrived first, and they established trading posts years before you. But trade wasn't their main bbusiness in Japan, as the spread of Christianty was.
Edit: but after the victory of the Tokugawas in 1611, the Christians were booted out of Japan. Only Dutch merchants were tolerated in Japan (I think they were the only foreigners tolerated at all in Japan before 1850).

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Randolph
Predetermined traits are not something that is going to change. People really need to stop complaining about things like this. Everyone needs to come to grips with the fact that Civilization has nothing to do with actual history.

Mine change all the time. Its called the Editor.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Randolph
Predetermined traits are not something that is going to change. People really need to stop complaining about things like this. Everyone needs to come to grips with the fact that Civilization has nothing to do with actual history.

Mine change all the time. Its called the Editor.

I don't think jumping down peoples throat because they discuss things they would like to see improved in the game is necessarily the way to go. If no one ever commented about things they would like changed or bugs they found in the game it probably wouldn't have been patched and expanded like it has.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

To jump in on the whole Dutch: commercial? debate, I'd like to add that the Inca and Hittite traits seem to have little to do with their history. Well, the Inca one isn't so bad, but for the Hittities, commercial? Wha?

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
The only thing the Israelites contributed was religion (generalization) and they are hardly mentioned by other civilizations at all. Except "in so and so year some slaves (ancient foreign word for Israelites)".....

More people on the face of the planet Earth today worship YHWH than believe in anything else, so I'd say that's a pretty signifigant generalization!

And it's hard to think of a more contentious - and thus, IMHO, game-worthy - civilization on the planet today than Israel... nor as great an antagonist to the Arabs, Romans, and Egyptians... even the Turks... I intend to switch the Hittities with the Israels once I get the mod.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by raen1978
I agree with you, The Dutch were more commercial than The English, even Portugal was. And the industrial revolution fits well with the English, I dont know why they changed that....

Commercial is a much better fit for England. English banks remain important today... English capital financed much of the world for many years, and it's offshoot continues to do so to a significant extent... on the other hand, English workers aren't EXACTLY known for their "industriousness"...

If there was an attribute such as "witty" then maybe we'd have a better fit.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
More people on the face of the planet Earth today worship YHWH than believe in anything else, so I'd say that's a pretty signifigant generalization!

And it's hard to think of a more contentious - and thus, IMHO, game-worthy - civilization on the planet today than Israel... nor as great an antagonist to the Arabs, Romans, and Egyptians... even the Turks... I intend to switch the Hittities with the Israels once I get the mod.

They only contributed one aspect and even then the bulk of the establishment of it was by other civilizations. I'm not saying Israel is not a civilization but to say they were so historically important and dominant in relation to other civilizations is a farce.

The Catholic Church scores higher as a civilization than Israel.

They controlled and maniputulated nations, exhorted far more cultural influence and and fielded military forces over a larger period than Israel.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
The Catholic Church scores higher as a civilization than Israel.

GF, there's some theology reading you need to do...

YHWH = "God" = Al-lah.

How much more influential do you get?!?

In terms of being able to field troops, or command masses, sure, the Catholic church "scores higher". But in terms of influencing the course of history, few civilizations rank higher than Israel. Perhaps India and China. Perhaps Europe, as a whole.

But there would BE no Catholics - or Protestants, Muslims, Sihks or even Neitzchean-style atheists - without ancient Israel and its God, and that's the important point.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth


GF, there's some theology reading you need to do...

YHWH = "God" = Al-lah.

How much more influential do you get?!?

Yay! They game up with a word and a concept! Their a Major Civilization.

Ronald Reagan came up with a word (Reagonomics) and a concept (Trickle Down Economics) now he's a Major Civilization too!

When did the Israel civilization conquer Egypt? Never. When did they sack the Hittites? Never. When did they bully the Bablyonians or Persians? Never. They spend their whole existence in a VERY small little plot of desert hoping the world would forget they were there.

If Civilization was a religion only game then Israel would be at the top of the list, but it isn't. It is a game of Major Civilzations butting heads with one another. Israel does NOT qualify.

[ormstunga]

so the israelis invented god, ok great

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by ormstunga
so the israelis invented god, ok great

I was kinda wondering about that..... isn't it supposed to be the other way around?

Someone needs to inform God he was created by the Israelites so he can bow down and worship them........