Fascism: the new Fundamentalism?

[Jaybe]

I wouldn't be surprized if foreign pop loses in both cases are higher than native pop loses.

No doubt, considering that foreign "subhumans" are little better than ... .
Especially after the political administration comes in.*

*Historical Note: as the German army advanced into USSR, they treated the populace civilly (Waffen SS excepted); they had no qualms with the Russian people and definitely didn't want hostility from them. Initially, the Russian populace (especially peasants) thought the Germans were "saviors" from the Communist yoke.
Then the Nazis (administrative) arrived, and the partisan resistance began as they found how "wonderfully" they had been treated under Soviet rule. It was all relative, and suddenly a matter of desperate survival.

[WarpStorm]

I don't mind the government, except that it makes Communism (in its current form) useless.

I don't find Communism useless. It is still the best if you like big empires (no, make that huge) empires.

[Louis XXIV]

If you have lots of cities, your normally good cities will dragged down to lower levels. If it had the corruption level of Democracy, plus communal, it might be worthwhile, but, IIRC, it has more corruption than that.

It was always simply a war gov, but Facism makes Communism less valuble, as Facism has more free units.

[WarpStorm]

In a huge far flung empire all my cities are productive (<5 lost shields in the cities that used to be old core (about 5-10% corruption) - there is no core under communism).

Let's just say that Communism got a little lovin' too.

[joncnunn]

To me, it looks like they designed Fascism as something to choose when your empire is realtively small in territory, but has Hospitals everywhere and you want to build up a huge armies for your number of cities. (Look at those huge support numbers!) It's main disadvance seems to be massive revolt problems if the Britzkreig fails. (And also a human would see the cross the board pop drop, and thus be warned.)

Communism is more of the inverse in practice: You have a realtively easy time building things and keeping order in newly conquered cities, but each one you conquer knocks that much off of production of your core cities.

In times of peace, all govts have trouble keeping up with the techs both Democracy and Republic can produce.

[sabrewolf]

this question is for jeff, he mentioned on the forums asking him about what they had done to change the corruption in communism
ah yes, I was alluding to the Secret HQ, or whatever it's called... help me out here, fellahs...
giving you the equivalent of a second forbidden palace, but only if you're in Communism
Secret Police Headquarters is the new Communism Small Wonders name Jeff
The Secret Police HQ allows Communism to be the favored government for a larger nation
Ed to the rescue...
much larger nation =)

source: edited CFC-firaxis-chat

so communism is slightly better now (or should one say less worse)

[Odin]

I really wish there was a "Democratic Socialist" Government that is like Democracy on most things but have communal corruption, no gold bonus, and some kind of production bonus.

[sabrewolf]

you mean like some european governements?

then there should be communal corruption (but less than in communism), no commerce disadavantage, but a lot higher war weariness (that's why a slider would be better for war weariness and corruption)

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

YEAH! How about "Democracy" and "Representative Democracy"? Higher levels of commerce for representative democracy + some MP factor, and for "Democracy," less commerce, no MP and high war weariness, but culture is generated faster, and some sort of benefit for tech too...?

Oh well, at this point we're waiting for Civ 4.

[Emperor Iaius I]

I'm personally looking forward to the Imperialism government. Fascism just seems to be too harmful for its worker benefits, and I don't approve of forced labor for my loyal citizens.

I'd much rather enjoy the expansionistic views of an imperialist government, and perhaps there will be cultural bonuses associated with this, since imperial powers tended to try to convert those regions they colonized.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Odin
I really wish there was a "Democratic Socialist" Government that is like Democracy on most things but have communal corruption, no gold bonus, and some kind of production bonus.

I put something like that in my Zeitgeist Mod - which I was playtesting right before Conquests was announced. My space age mod (see link below) has a government called 'Neoliberalism' which has communal corruption/gold bonus/no worker bonus/no draft. Check it out.

My main concern with conquests is how AI selection of governments will work. As Civ currently works, the AI seems to "see" two types of governments - peacetime and wartime (likely based on war weariness and tile bonus). The AI always seems to select the most advanced gov type for its given situation. E.g. a protracted war will create a preference for low war weariness over tile bonus. I've never seen (and I've been playtesting gov mods for awhile now) an AI select Republic after Democracy is available or Monarchy after Communism is available. The AI only seems to trade off between tile bonus and war weariness. Which leaves me to wonder if the Conquests AI will ever even select Communism after Facism is discovered.

[joncnunn]

Good point.

And will the AI ever pick Fuedalism? (Since it has some war werriousness and doesn't have trade bonus)

[Virdrago]

If anyone is worried about not getting culture from your newly taken cities, just pop-rush the temples and libraries. Your "new" city might be 1-3 citizens (out of, say 10 when you took it), but they'll all probably be your civ's by then. Failing that, many migrant workers can leave the cities for concentration camps in your version of Siberia

[WarpStorm]

Virdrago,

Why would there be any citizens of your civ until the city has actuallly grown a few people? This can take a while. In addition, fascism isn't good at assimilation.

I don't know that pop-rushing is selective (I really haven't payed attention) so this may backfire by getting rid of those people who were of your tribe also.

The other problem with pop-rushing them is that then you'll need to leave more of your troops behind than usual as MPs for a long time due to the rushing unhappiness.


Joncon,

The AI likes Feudalism as it frees up lots of cash (trust me on this).

[joncnunn]

Usally, when you take over a city there's NO native citizens. (Unless of course it used to be yours) Immedate pop rushing would of course take foreigners because there's no native pop, but even if you pop rush things down to size 1, it's still going to have no culture produced until it grows to size 2. (Assuming the city started at 10+ by then either all the workers better be specalists, or more military units than the number of citizens will be needed to keep order)