Poland as a new civ in Conquests

[BulMaster]

since we are on the spree to say how bad england and france of course are let's remind you that on of the main reasons the africans are poor is because you enslaved them and folrbid them to grow enough food. Wow so nice isn't it. I'm not blaming you guys world wealth is not growing as you might think you just take from some to share with others.

Just to remind you that far as i know civilization3 is a GAME yeah weird isn't it. I find it stupid to say who deserves to be in it and what their country did. I will just say that if it wasn't for the us western europe would have fallen in the communist hands just like eastern europe. Go worship the devil in his playground!

the only think i don't aggree is the fact that eastern europe is completly left out of the game(even if poland is included in c3c i will still play with russia) and the other thing i hate most is a mod th something in which the guy claims bulgaria was under hungarian rule! Jesus what an idiot! i preffer to be left out than see such blashemy!

[BulMaster]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Yeah. Take out Britain from Civ 3. They've done nothing historically. Nothing. Just painted half the world red, left a language that became an commercial and technical standard and handed the reins of empire over to the USA.... oh, and invented/pioneered industrialism, world trade, football, TV.

Oh, and as for France... Pah! What was the enlightenment anyway? Who did Napoleon ever conquer?

Let's get these irrelevant West European tribes off the Civ 3 roster now! They clearly have no place the game whatsoever.

I don't think the guy meant that he just wanted to say that you should no be treated as gods or something.

as for napoleon just how long did the french empire lasted? 10 years right? HOW GREAT!

[Vince278]

As much as I hate to say something nice about France I believe they pretty much dominated Western Europe from post-Roman times to the nineteenth century. Charlemagne was way better than Napolean in furthering French civilization.

[mr Rura]

To show how important role Poland played in the history of Europe, I have written the evidences of our importance. For example - the II WW:

- the code "Enigma" was broken by the Poles [by Rejewski, Rozycki and Zygalski]. The copies of the code were delivered to british and french counterintelligence. This fact had tremendous effect on the war. Since then, allies could forecast all German's actions. Germans didn't know about broking the code until the end of war.

- the guerilla forces in Poland were the biggest in Europe. Only the partisans in Jugoslavia were more important , but they had less difficulty, because of high mountains.

- Poles resisted much more harder than other countries such as France, Greece, Norway, Denmark. Poland was defeated after one-month fighting. To compare: Denmark was defeted after a few hours...

- the most difficult operation of II WW was obviouslly the battle of Monte Cassino. Germans gethered huge forces there, because the great canyon could be crossed only in few places[!!!]. Many allies forces tried to breach the front: Americans, Britons, Frenchmens, Australians, [and probably more nations, I don't remember], but it wasn't done until the attack of Polish 2.nd corps of general Anders.

- The 303-th and 302-nd fighter divisons played a major role in the air battle of Britain. Some historians say [not only Polish historians!], that Germans would win the battle without help of polish pilots. And if they had done that, they would be able to destroy all seaports in England. When the british navy had been destroyed, Germans would have no difficulty to conquer the UK - british land forces were much smaller than the german.

- Poles fought in many other majot battles in Europe: we defended Tobruk [the resinstance of small group of Poles was such unbelivable, that Germans called polish soldiers "the rats of Tobruk"]. It was huge seaport, with tremendous strategic importance. The city of Tobruk was held by very long time by the tiny polish forces. We also taked part in operation Overlord and Market-Garden. And many others too...

Its very probable that the II WW would be won by Germans if the polish nation didn't existed...

Changed your mind? Are we worth including now?
________________________

I checked the word "Bulgaria" in encyclopedia and I was quite impressed - the country of Bulgaria began to exist in 681 year. Over 2 centuries before Poland! However, Poland is more important. Bulgaria was indenpendent only for 6 centuries and it have never been major power in Europe. Poland existed for over 8 centuries, and was a great military power in the XVI century. So it isn't sensible to say that Bulgaria is more imprortant than Poland...

[BulMaster]

Well i proposed that we stop this but since your stupid enough to continue here we go, let's see just how great poland was in WWII since it's the only thing you mentioned:

"But the King himself, Bulgarian intellectuals, the Orthodox Church and the general public resisted strongly Hitler's demand that all Bulgarian jews be deportedto the death camps in Poland. Bulgarian jews were saved from the Holocaust and almost all of them regard the King as their saviour.

50,000 Bulgarian Jews survived...."



WOW look how great you are, if you resisted that much how come you exterminated jews?

"Bulgarians are registered on themap as the 1st millenium before the birth of christ" so how long before poland my friend make the maths!

Bulgarians founded 5 states in euro-asia region.


Oh btw it was very hard for me to find what are poland's origins are you german or russian? And as the french call you poland is that weird state that you never know if it's on the map of europe it always appears and disappears.


khan Krum, who was in power from 803 to 814 AD. His main accomplishment was the expansion of Bulgaria’s territory. He incorporated more Slavic tribes and eventually defeated the Byzantine army, nearly taking Constantinople. Under his rule, Bulgaria became an outstanding power not only in the Balkans, but also in all of Eastern and Central Europe. Another major contribution of his was the establishment of Bulgaria’s first written laws. These allowed him to unite Bulgarians and Slavs into a strong, integrated, and centralized state. No khan before him had contributed as much to the consolidation and expansion of the Bulgarian state.

Tzar Simeon, who became the first Tsar. His rule was defined by two main goals: to break away from Byzantine political and religious influence and to turn Bulgaria into a powerful rival of the Byzantine Empire. Obsessed by his goals of domination, Simeon marched against Byzantium and destroyed many of its towns. The numerous wars waged by him turned Bulgaria into the most powerful Slavic state in Europe. In 925 AD, he proclaimed himself Emperor of the Romans and Bulgars. As a highly educated ruler, he became a patron of arts and letters. Under him, the Bulgarian creative spirit drew the best of the cultural heritage of the neighboring Byzantium. This flourishing of Bulgarian culture became known as the Golden Age. In addition, Old Bulgarian was firmly established as a language, contributing to the survival of the nation and the fame of Tsar Simeon, who is rightfully called Bulgaria’s Charles the Great.

Tsar Kaloyan was anxious to negotiate a settlement of the borderline dispute with the Latin emperor Baldwin of Flanders (1204- 1205). However, the Latins' reply was haughty and rude. They said that, as far as they were concerned, Bulgaria was an illegitimate political formation and that its territory, as part of the former Byzantine empire whose heirs-at-law they thought to be, would belong to them by rights. They informed Kaloyan in a sarcastic fashion that their coming was imminent. Kaloyan's plea to Pope Innocent III to bring the crusaders to their senses took no effect at all.

In that situation the Bulgarian ruler, who surely did not like being at the tail-end of events, decided to strike first. In the spring of 1205 a rebellion, inspired by tsar Kaloyan, broke out in Latin Thrace. Only when the Latin army besieged the main city of the region, Adrianople (present-day Edirne), did the crusaders see, in spell-binding amazement, that the fortress walls had Bulgarian standards fixed on top. Surviving Byzantine nobility had to recognize the supremacy of the Bulgarian tsar. Soon after, the Bulgarian army also arrived at the walls of Adrianople. Confident of their invincibility, the knights raided the Bulgarian army on 14 April 1205 and sustained tremendous losses and a defeat. On that day, in the vicinity of Adrianople, emperor Baldwin was taken prisoner and the that day. It marked the end of the reveries of some West European political circles about their enduring presence in the East. For, the Adrianople disaster was a death blow to the infant empire which did, never again, succeed in assuming the role of a primary political power in the European East and which, after a painful agony six decades long, was to disappear completely from the political stage.


Do you want a statement about who created the first CPU? Since bulgarians invented it well you should thanks us for you beeing able to crack the enigma code. Here you go my friend if you want more just ask.

BTW you were founded in 966 Also count the time the word power is mentioned the info is from foreign sites i especialy didn't took info from bg sites so you won't accuse me of using nationalistic litterature what is ecsacly what you are doing. I remain,

Sincealy Yours

[BulMaster]

Don't take me wrong I know how much Poland suffered in WWII thx to Hitler. What you don't know on the other hand is how much we suffered from the Ottman rule and the humiliation after the foundation of the third kingdom. And if you were hit the most by hitler as his first milliraty action, we were hit first by the ottomans and believe it or not they were much more brutal than Hitler.

Another fact from the bulgarian byzantine wars was when the byzantines finaly took over us for 200 years. The army of Czar Saumil was captured 12000 mens ther were all blinded both eyes but for each 99 of them one was blinded by only one eye so they lead the others and return to the Czar.

The April Uprising with whith which all the world turned it's eyes to bulgaria is considered among the brutalest events in the end of the 19th century. Journalist from all over the world came to see what the ottomans did to us. Villages and towns were wiped out of the map, thousands womem and old ppl, and children brutally killed, raped and disgraced. You might during the centuries beeing under austro-hungarian and russian rule but at least you were a civilized country under the rule of a civilizied country, we on the other hand were a civilized country under a brutal rule and inhuman rule, which make us to be envied because after 5 centuries of tortures we remained what we are and were never with broken spirit.

Kind regards
Proudly rise the Balkan peaks,
At their feet Blue Danube flows;
Over Thrace the sun is shining,
Pirin looms in purple glow.


Dear native land,
you are paradise on earth,
your beauty and your charm,
ah, they never end.



PS: Change your signature

[BulMaster]

I leave you win, really hope poland will be in c3c simply because we don't need a game to know how great, proud and beautiful our country is we have our history to remind us of it.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by mr Rura
To show how important role Poland played in the history of Europe, I have written the evidences of our importance. For example - the II WW:

- the code "Enigma" was broken by the Poles [by Rejewski, Rozycki and Zygalski]. The copies of the code were delivered to british and french counterintelligence. This fact had tremendous effect on the war. Since then, allies could forecast all German's actions. Germans didn't know about broking the code until the end of war.

- the guerilla forces in Poland were the biggest in Europe. Only the partisans in Jugoslavia were more important , but they had less difficulty, because of high mountains.

- Poles resisted much more harder than other countries such as France, Greece, Norway, Denmark. Poland was defeated after one-month fighting. To compare: Denmark was defeted after a few hours...

- the most difficult operation of II WW was obviouslly the battle of Monte Cassino. Germans gethered huge forces there, because the great canyon could be crossed only in few places[!!!]. Many allies forces tried to breach the front: Americans, Britons, Frenchmens, Australians, [and probably more nations, I don't remember], but it wasn't done until the attack of Polish 2.nd corps of general Anders.

- The 303-th and 302-nd fighter divisons played a major role in the air battle of Britain. Some historians say [not only Polish historians!], that Germans would win the battle without help of polish pilots. And if they had done that, they would be able to destroy all seaports in England. When the british navy had been destroyed, Germans would have no difficulty to conquer the UK - british land forces were much smaller than the german.

- Poles fought in many other majot battles in Europe: we defended Tobruk [the resinstance of small group of Poles was such unbelivable, that Germans called polish soldiers "the rats of Tobruk"]. It was huge seaport, with tremendous strategic importance. The city of Tobruk was held by very long time by the tiny polish forces. We also taked part in operation Overlord and Market-Garden. And many others too...

Its very probable that the II WW would be won by Germans if the polish nation didn't existed...

Changed your mind? Are we worth including now?

Poles were a part of the team in WWII, quite far from being the be-all and end-all. The Eniga effort involved thousands, most British Navy, Air Force, and Intelligence. Other nationalities, like some Americans and Europeans, were heavily involved.

Overstating one's contributions is as bad as understating them. Many Polish individuals made great contributions during the war but Poland as a nation was severely victimized. Using WWII as an argument on including Poland in Civ is not a good idea.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by BulMaster
I leave you win, really hope poland will be in c3c simply because we don't need a game to know how great, proud and beautiful our country is we have our history to remind us of it.

Best thing you've said so far. Its not a sin to love your country.

[BulMaster]

hehe no one said it is btw Vince just for the records Charlemage is not french but german The holy roman empire wasn't a french empire.

[Panag]

hi ,


" - The 303-th and 302-nd fighter divisons played a major role in the air battle of Britain. Some historians say [not only Polish historians!], that Germans would win the battle without help of polish pilots. And if they had done that, they would be able to destroy all seaports in England. When the british navy had been destroyed, Germans would have no difficulty to conquer the UK - british land forces were much smaller than the german. "

*cough* with what planes , ..... the polish airforce was " ZIP " before the war broke out , .......

have a nice day

[Panag]

hi ,


Well i proposed that we stop this but since your stupid enough to continue here we go, let's see just how great poland was in WWII since it's the only thing you mentioned:

"But the King himself, Bulgarian intellectuals, the Orthodox Church and the general public resisted strongly Hitler's demand that all Bulgarian jews be deportedto the death camps in Poland. Bulgarian jews were saved from the Holocaust and almost all of them regard the King as their saviour.

50,000 Bulgarian Jews survived...."


*cough* , and this time it aint funny anymore , where the heck do those stupid high numbers from , ......

someone forgot to say how many where killed , or to mention about the roaming death batt's on the eastern front , ..... from bulgaria , .....

please leave all this bogus WWII crap out of a CIV III gamethread , ......

have a nice day

[Vince278]

Originally posted by BulMaster
hehe no one said it is btw Vince just for the records Charlemage is not french but german The holy roman empire wasn't a french empire.

Well, he was King of the Franks before he was Emperor and his son Louis the Pious founded a French dynasty. Besides, I heard the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, roman, or an empire.

[BulMaster]

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

*cough* , and this time it aint funny anymore , where the heck do those stupid high numbers from , ......
have a nice day

I dunno friend it's not us who planted a forest in Israel to express someone's gratitude gratitude to what we did.

Anyway can someone close the thread? PLEASE

[Vince278]

Originally posted by BulMaster
Anyway can someone close the thread? PLEASE

I second the motion. The original subject was just idle speculation. As if WE could influence the choice of civs, especially this close to release.