Poland as a new civ in Conquests

[Tiberius]

I wonder whether Firaxis will include "conquest" (scenario) - specific civs.
If yes, that would be great because otherwise certain nations that wouldn't make in "normal" civ3 games could be played.
If not, then I would be very-very curious to see how can Firaxis include a medieval European scenario without Poles and Hungarians, the two most powerful and important kingdoms in Eastern Europe during the middle ages. Who would fight against the ottomans?
Take a look at a medieval European map and you will see what I'm talking about. After the fall of Byzantium, it was these two nations who defended Europe against the turks.
There would be one problem though to include both nations: the special unit. The Hussar (or Huszar, in hungarian) was originally a hungarian unit, who were great horsemen. The huszar was so successful that it made later career in other armies, too (Poland, Austria, etc). But I'm not an expert in military history and I'm sure a proper unit could be find.

Btw, I noticed in the first post of this thread that one of proposed Polish leaders was István (Stephen) Báthory Did you know that he was hungarian from Transylvania, where he was prince before becoming king of Poland? That made me very pride, because it is my homeland, too. (and yes, he was a superb leader)

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by BulMaster
Well if we talk about history, the representative of the slavic ppl should be the bulgarians. ignore the fact i'm bulgarian, but we have created the cirylic alphabet, if we look at our hitory bulgaria is one of the very few nations that kept it's name, was the first state in europe and was an empire

That's true. Bulgaria not only has a long history of nationhood, but also, prior to Bulgaria's centralization, one of the Bulgar Khans had a drinking cup made of a Byzantine Emperor's skull. How hardcore is that? Worthy of inclusion in CIV, IMO.

[sabrewolf]

Mr Rura

allthough off topic, i'd like to thank you. you've written more in a single post than the majority of the spammers (specially in the democracy game fora) in 100 posts...

!welcome to 'poly!

[Vince278]

Originally posted by mr Rura
hi overyone! It's my first post here.

Welcome! A well written post (even if it brought up things already mentioned here...). Its good to hear about this issue from a Pole's point-of-view.

[BulMaster]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth


That's true. Bulgaria not only has a long history of nationhood, but also, prior to Bulgaria's centralization, one of the Bulgar Khans had a drinking cup made of a Byzantine Emperor's skull. How hardcore is that? Worthy of inclusion in CIV, IMO.

Haha yeah khan Krum and later on we are the only who defeated the undefeatable crusaders, the 4 crusade i think and we imprisoned Baudoin of Flanders in the tower and not even the pope made us release him. Not to mention we were the only country the byzantine empire feared and of coourse since someone talked about the turks, we are those who stopped the first arab invasion and saved constantinopol. in modern history bulgarians invented the first computer you can check this if you wish a guy John Atanasov. We are the first to use the planes as bombers in the balakan wars. and in the first ww some historians consider us as the reason the war lasted three years more. I can continue but i think this argument won't lead to good. As for the slav nations i'm sorry to say it but we are the one who consolidate them to stand against the byzantines at as for warsaw well it might be ugly but it appears that some of the bulgarians found it. I'm sorry i might be wrong don't take it as an offence or something as they say history is a bunch of facts. As i said debating won't lead to good.
Also we are in civ 3 as a goody hut which i find insulting!!!
if u remember the fan questions when civ was still in dev you can see that they published my question about custom civs and civs from the balkans of course they didn't ask what i asked really but they don't care i think.

Anyway if we start a debate for the poles i will counter argue with out history, sorry guys hope you understand that if you are in i willl just feel insulted even more. Let's just not discuss who is the greatest it won't be good.

Also for the ottomans we are the one that showed the biggest resistance and suffered the most of their power so forget the hungarians poles defeating them.
Btw how you know about our khan and the byzantine emperor?
finaly an educated person :P

[Vince278]

I completely understand people's desires to see their own or a favorite civ in the game but the unfortunate fact is that we cannot possibly please everyone. I personally believe civs that greatly impact the world through most of the time period covered by the game are the most worthy of inclusion (best example possibly being China). I would like to see Luxembourg or the Amish ruling the world but they are probably best left for mods.

[BulMaster]

the prob it that civ 3 is still in the communist world i think. Everything east of the berlin war is a hole in the world and the next place is russia. Like there is a big sea between russia and western europe



Personaly i call this descrimination ,call it as you like.

[Inhalaattori]

Take out Sumeria or Babylonia , Dutch, Iroguois, Zulu
Take in Poland, Khmers, Mali, Ethiopia, Zimbabwe

(also Lithuania and Hungary would be nice choices, becouse they had huuuge nations in the middle- Ages)

Finno- Ugrian could nice also, becouse they inhabited once almost hole of the nowaday european Russia. I still dont know if they still existed as a one group 6000 years ago, when Civ starts?

The east Europe is ALWAYS underrated. It annoys me also. But the worst is Africa. There were huge kingdoms and they put Zulus there. Heh.

Countries like England and France are very overrated in western history. Their golden era lasted very short time. In the middle- Ages and before that they really had no meaning for rest of the world.

[mr Rura]

BulMaster, if you want, I could write many historical facts, which shows our major role in the history, but give some time to complete them all... For example it is said that the air war of Britain, would be losed by allies without our help, and if that had happend, Germans would win the war... Give me time to complete all facts...

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by BulMaster
Btw how you know about our khan and the byzantine emperor?
finaly an educated person :P

I knew about this by reading "A Cartoon History of the World Vol. 3". All 3 volumes, by Larry Gonick, are very entertaining, and, actually, very well written histories. Of course, you don't want to rely on them exclusively for detail, but for a balanced overview of history that lacks sloppy sentimentality or banal nationalism, it's a good place to go. If you don't believe me, check it out.

I know this post is off-topic, but since so many people around here write about history in their posts, and seem to know the history of only their nation of origin, or no reputable history whatsoever, I thought I should mention these books: informative and fun to read.

[BulMaster]

Yahweh Sabaoth cool
bah i back down this thread is pointless, good luck to poland for the game at least the Us knows where you are on a map. In win 98 they put bulgaria in central europe. Besides each nation has it's historical facts to compete. I see no point to continue. If someone want to learn some history then go the http://www.bulgaria.com/history/bulgaria/index.html site here you have the history from the early beginning till 1944. For me is very easy i will just not buy the exp and download it from the net.
Hope you make in conquest at least Poland has followers here i'm all alone and as a minority steps down. As we say the wisest always steps back!

[Vince278]

Originally posted by mr Rura
BulMaster, if you want, I could write many historical facts, which shows our major role in the history, but give some time to complete them all... For example it is said that the air war of Britain, would be losed by allies without our help, and if that had happend, Germans would win the war... Give me time to complete all facts...

Take your time.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by mr Rura
it is said that the air war of Britain, would be losed by allies without our help

Yes, and we remember this with the Polish War Memorial in West London. A daily reminder for commuters on the M40.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Inhalaattori

Countries like England and France are very overrated in western history. Their golden era lasted very short time. In the middle- Ages and before that they really had no meaning for rest of the world.

Yeah. Take out Britain from Civ 3. They've done nothing historically. Nothing. Just painted half the world red, left a language that became an commercial and technical standard and handed the reins of empire over to the USA.... oh, and invented/pioneered industrialism, world trade, football, TV.

Oh, and as for France... Pah! What was the enlightenment anyway? Who did Napoleon ever conquer?

Let's get these irrelevant West European tribes off the Civ 3 roster now! They clearly have no place the game whatsoever.

[Inhalaattori]

Heh. "In the middle- Ages and before that they really had no meaning for rest of the world."
I just meant that these countries achieved their status very lately.

Im not saying that they should be taken out of civ3.

You invented football? Many ancient cultures had similar games. Like aztecs and mayans.

"invented/pioneered industrialism, world trade, football, TV."
Its true. But it would be better if you hadnt invented these. Just artifacts of evil. Maybe you will (in the future) also get recognition to start development that lead to destruction of all life.

"handed the reins of empire over to the USA"
Creating the "Devils playground" is not an achievement to me.