Poland as a new civ in Conquests

[sabrewolf]

yahweh, you gave me an idea!
what i'm really missing is propaganda.

propaganda is the best way of reducing or even eliminating war weariness!

i remember the grandfather of my ex girlfriend talking about when he fought for the nazis in the 2nd world war. they had no idea what was going on. all they were told was that the evil czecks (he fought that part of the war) we raiding, rampaging, raping and razing german villages. the hate that was built up was so enormous that he really believed the checks were barbarians and he was on the good side. it tood several years to get used to the thought that they were mislead by propaganda.

but not only then, even today propaganda is used.. as seen in the recent war in iraq. both sides used it extensively.

i just can figure out if propaganda should be a great or small wonder or a tech.

to come back to your point: prostitution and cable television would best be a "luxury resource"

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Man, I just tried to post a reply and it wouldn't let me!

What if you could destroy one of your own wonders and blame it on another civ?

You could declare war on that civ and have a popular war under a democracy! (i.e., we love the king days galore, and war weariness only much later)

Reichstag burning, anyone? 9/11?

[Panag]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
Man, I just tried to post a reply and it wouldn't let me!

What if you could destroy one of your own wonders and blame it on another civ?

You could declare war on that civ and have a popular war under a democracy! (i.e., we love the king days galore, and war weariness only much later)

Reichstag burning, anyone? 9/11?

hi ,

9/11 should not be included out of respect , ......


have a nice day

[Civmonopolis]

Okay people I'd have to argue on something would be pretty silly. Germans shouldn't be removed (not saying that this is a good thing) they were a very big part of history they were one of the civs that started the two world wars. They were one of the civs that all of the Ally forces were going up against. Alot of the civs in the game already in the game had been or are one of the major powerhouses of there day. Alexander the Great of the Greek was a conquering maniac. The Roman Empire was very big and conquered alot also.

I probably sound like a total idiot right now but I'm trying to prove a point. I'm also sorry about getting off topic. Having the Polands as a new civ sounds interesting I've been learning alot from all of you just reading about how great Poland history effected so many other civs. I would have never thought the Poles as a new civ unless I didn't read this thread.

Oh and I agree that the Ethiopians should be a new civ on civ3.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
In a sort of bizarre attempt to bring this thread even slightly back on topic:
If slavery is incorporated into Civ, and now human sacrifice, why isn't prostitution? And cable television?

You can make one hell of a fruit salad from those apples and oranges.
Anyway, I don't know about Civ but CtP2 models slavery nicely. I believe TV is also one of the wonders. MoM has human sacrifice (Civ does as well if you count the loss of pops to rush projects). But I can't see how (or why) anyone would want prostitution in Civ.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
Man, I just tried to post a reply and it wouldn't let me!

What if you could destroy one of your own wonders and blame it on another civ?

You could declare war on that civ and have a popular war under a democracy! (i.e., we love the king days galore, and war weariness only much later)

Reichstag burning, anyone? 9/11?

Bizarre. I don't think a democracy could fool everyone . Destroy the jewel of your civ just so you could have a go at someone? What should actually happen if you really did something that dumb is that the AI should depose you, erase all of the saved games, and send us all an email so we can make fun of you.

Now if someone else took or bombed your city and destroyed the wonder your idea may have alot of merit.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
i just can figure out if propaganda should be a great or small wonder or a tech.

As "Truth is the first casualty of war" (see Philip Knightley's book) there's definitely a case for this.

For years I've thought of either the Ruder Finn Public Relations Company or the Hill-Knowlton PR Company would be a good wonder. It would be a more convincing dampener of war-weariness than Univeral Sufferage.

Like the way the Nazis demonised the Czechs and Poles prior to invasion quoted above, these modern companies job was to "circulate, not verify information" (according the the Ruder-Finn boss).

The most infamous example was Hill-Knowlton's 1991 "Kuwaiti Incubator" story. A tearkerking Kuwaiti 'nurse' told Congress how evil Iraqi's had thrown babies out of incubators. Except that she was not a nurse she was the Kuwaiti Ambassador's daughter, and the story was a fiction. The truth didn't matter though, the world bought the story and the war.

Ruder Finn took a similar hatchet to the truth in the balkan conflicts of the 90's to ensure western public support for military campaigns there. I won't go into details, it's too controversial.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


As "Truth is the first casualty of war" (see Philip Knightley's book) there's definitely a case for this.

For years I've thought of either the Ruder Finn Public Relations Company or the Hill-Knowlton PR Company would be a good wonder. It would be a more convincing dampener of war-weariness than Univeral Sufferage.

Like the way the Nazis demonised the Czechs and Poles prior to invasion quoted above, these modern companies job was to "circulate, not verify information" (according the the Ruder-Finn boss).

The most infamous example was Hill-Knowlton's 1991 "Kuwaiti Incubator" story. A tearkerking Kuwaiti 'nurse' told Congress how evil Iraqi's had thrown babies out of incubators. Except that she was not a nurse she was the Kuwaiti Ambassador's daughter, and the story was a fiction. The truth didn't matter though, the world bought the story and the war.

Ruder Finn took a similar hatchet to the truth in the balkan conflicts of the 90's to ensure western public support for military campaigns there. I won't go into details, it's too controversial.

hi ,

yes , yes , okay , but how many other real horror stories where never revealed , .........


the mass murder that took place , the police who moved in and stole everything , setting fire everywhere to cover up , people who where shot because hey where foreigners , etc , ......


have a nice day

[Inhalaattori]

Im sorry for my bad comments...
And you`re right about that race/tribe/nation thing. Nowadays there are no real "racially solid nations" anymore. Maybe before "migration of peoples" and "fall of Rome" there in some sense was.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

9/11 should not be included out of respect , ......

have a nice day

Well, should the Reichstag burning, for that matter?

Are the Germans less deserving of respect than the Americans (many of whom are German-descended)?

Sorry, this is OT... sorry sorry sorry...

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Vince278
Now if someone else took or bombed your city and destroyed the wonder your idea may have alot of merit.

Well, that would make it worse of course, but "conspiracy" is totally overlooked in Civ and is a major part of huge world events throughout history... it should be incorporated in some way... I think destroying a wonder is an appropriate price to pay for such a heinous, yet effective, act.

[sabrewolf]

speaking of conspiracies:
destroy a wonder,
kill a great leader,
nuke your own city.

a good way would be that 90% of the time, this type of propaganda works. in the other 10% more your people get very very unhappy (like if overwhipping them) and you can be sure to lose some captured cities.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
speaking of conspiracies:
destroy a wonder,
kill a great leader,
nuke your own city.

a good way would be that 90% of the time, this type of propaganda works. in the other 10% more your people get very very unhappy (like if overwhipping them) and you can be sure to lose some captured cities.

Well, nuking your own city DOES erase all of the evidence.

[BulMaster]

Well if we talk about history, the representative of the slavic ppl should be the bulgarians. ignore the fact i'm bulgarian, but we have created the cirylic alphabet, if we look at our hitory bulgaria is one of the very few nations that kept it's name, was the first state in europe and was an empire

[mr Rura]

hi overyone! It's my first post here.

I write these words from Poland. I live all my life here and I know history of this country much more than most of you. I agree with Wycoff, who maintains that Poles were and are very important nation. Poland was very important country in the history of whole world, especially since 1569 when Poland and Lithuana joined themselves and created one great country. In that time Poland were one of most powerful kingdoms of the Europe, more powerful than England, Russia or Austria! Since X to XVI century we were very important nation, and in XVI century one of the greatest in Europe! Poland didn't existed since 1795 to 1818 but even then we were very important nation - we made many uprisings against our foes. To be honest I must admit, that Poland was a speed bump between Germany and Russia. But only after XVII century! Before that date, it was very important kingdom! We just had very difiicult history - Germans on the west, Russians on the east and many other powerful countries around us [Sweden, Turkey, Austria-Hungary]. So it's hard to be amazed that we had difficult with indenpendence. Don't you think, Vince, that we were very bad placed - between two very powerful and agressive kingdoms? It was unreal to defend.

But in medieval and renaisance Poland was VERY important country. We were much more important than Iroquis, Zulus, Hetits or Netherlands... I'm very dissapointed with lack of Poland in the civ 3. But I didn't expected my country in the main "bold" game. I'd forgive the Firaxis team lack of Poland in PTW expansion. But in "Conquests"? Sorry but I can't stand it. Isn't Poland one of the 32 most important country in the history? Yes, I'm sure it is! So WHY didn't FIRAXIS created Polish nation? WHY? Portugal and Netherlands always were and are much smaller and much less populated than Poland, both in past and present [and probably in far future too...]. Yes, I know, that countries colonized many parts of the world, but there is little place on the west Europe. On the east part of Europe there many space on the map.

And don't say, that I am selfish or something like that. There are also many very important countries, which aren't included in the game, such as Sweden or Denmark. There wasn't be place to Denmark on world map, but Sweden? It was one of the greatest kingdoms of the Europe, and it is avoided! Scandinavia? It wasn't a civ! There were only agressive barbarians...

But there is a rescue for me and other Poles. My compatriots have made an "polish" mod - it includes our country with our special unit - Hussar. And I'm grateful to them with that. I haven't already played it because I don't have internet access at home and file is too big to save it to a floppy. But I'm going to ask my friend to download it and burn it to CDRW. I'm sure I will enjoy it very much... without Firaxis. They dissapointed me much.

If you are interested in this mod, it can be downloaded at http://civ.org.pl site. Although it's polish site, the is eglish language as an option, so you shouldn't have any trouble with it. This mod works without PTW, but if you have got PTW you can download also patch to this mod to play it on PTW expansion.

And the other nations:

IMO Austria-Hungary shouldn't be Included. Why?
1. Austria was one of the hundrets of German little kingdoms. Throught the ages, two German countries begun to gain domination - Prussia [modern Germany] and Austria. DO you see, what I mean? Austrians were one of Germans.
2. A-H was lived by: Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, Poles, Bohemians, Ukrainians, Italians, Romanians, Retoromans, Slovenians, Slovakians, Serbs, Chroatians and other nations. Only about 20-25 % of population were Austrians!
3. Without help of Poland in 1683, Austria would be probably conquested by great military power of Ottomans - the greatest country of that times. A-H was a weak country then.
4. Poland is more important, and only one of these nations can be included in game - it would be rather too crowdy in central Europe.

Slav also shouldn't be included, because there were only nomadic tribes. Moreover: Russia becomes from slavians - it would be pointless to put two civilizations on the same map, if one of them becomes from another. That is why I am also against Bizantium, Holy Roman Emperor, Franks, Australians, Canadians etc.. Only Americans can be included, because they have real great impact on whole world...