An OCC Strategy Guide for Emperor and Deity

[vmxa1]

panag I did not say it could not be done, only that it made no sense to do, except for a special condition.

[Panag]

Originally posted by vmxa1
panag I did not say it could not be done, only that it made no sense to do, except for a special condition.

hi ,

neither did i say , i remember that everyone thought it was not possible , ....

actually the human brain has no limits and can beat any game AI , its just a matter of finding how , .....

one can wonder wheter or not this is fun , most people would byte at the top of the fingertips out of sheer madness , .....

have a nice day

[GarP2]

ToeTruck -

This strategy is a real eye-opener for me. My game is not too bad, tactically, but diplomacy has always been difficult for me because it seemed like no matter how much you gave, it wasnt enough, and even if it was enough for one civ, another would nail you. I'm not done with my first game trying it (just got ToE , but its been very instructive so far.

Playing Monarch, tiny map, pangea, max land, as Greece. Seems impossible that some civ hasnt attacked because my civ is so weak (militarily). I almost had trouble with the Zulus who were lagging way behind the English and Russians, but when I finally started to pull away a little in tech, I had some non-critical techs (i.e., that wouldnt threaten the wonder I was building) to give them (or sell for 3 gold) and they quit being annoyed with me. I've gotten every wonder that I've tried for.

I'd gotten to where I can do pretty well at Monarch by being quite aggressive very early, but this strategy is amazing. Its like the civ version of Akido! It's really helped to put diplomacy into perspective for me.

Thank you for posting this thread.
GarP2

[ToeTruck]

Thanks GarP2,

I'm glad you're having success with this strategy. I find it a gas to play and get some pretty good results as well.

Seems impossible that some civ hasnt attacked because my civ is so weak (militarily).

Yea, I find that the biggest threat comes from barbs in the early game especially after a Massive Barbarian Uprising which can do some *extreme* damage to a one city civ!

I have played close to a hundred OCC games and have been attacked in less than five of them. Sometimes it happens, but not very often.

What's a little ironic here is that you are more vulnerable as a two city civ than as a one city civ. I've tried expanding this strategy to include more cities figuring "if I can do it with one city, two or three should be even better". There's something in the AI logic that isn't threatened by a one city civ that is on friendly terms. If you have an lightly defended second or third city, though, watch out. The AI considers you "low hanging fruit" and will attack without remorse.

I'd gotten to where I can do pretty well at Monarch by being quite aggressive very early, but this strategy is amazing.

When I'm not playing OCC, this strategy is the basis of my builder game. If I can concentrate on a Super Science City and also found a Settler/Worker pump, I aim for 8-10 cities and use the Sell! Sell! Sell! approach all the way. The city with the Forbidden Palace is a huge asset in building Wonders.

Even at Deity, that approach has yielded Diplomatic Victories in the 1600's and Spaceship launches in the 1700's. Not bad for never declaring war.

Playing OCC is just an extreme (a fun one, in my opinion).

Once you get the hang of OCC at Monarch on a tiny map, crank up the difficulty level. In no time at all, you should be getting One-City-Wins at Emperor. Then, make the map bigger...

If you have the chance, post a save game somewhere along the line. I'd love to see how it's going.

Talk to you later.

- TT

[ToeTruck]

Diplomatic Victory with Carthage

I just finished experimenting with Carthage and snagged a Diplomatic victory in 1838AD under Emperor. I was about 30 turns from a Cultural Victory and had just build the United Nations. Since a launch was impossible before 20,000 culture, I held a vote.

Attached is the save file if anyone is interested. Sorry, no log.

- TT

[GarP2]

Originally posted by ToeTruck I know what you mean about trading; it does get tedious sometimes. Almost nothing in the beginning and pretty easy when you have the Great Library, but once Education is discovered, you have to talk to everyone ever other turn or so just to see what they have.

I messed that up a couple of times and learned my lesson when the Zulus demanded a tech that I had just gotten 2 turns before but was hedging on giving them yet. I reloaded and did it right [a learning game after all].

I kind of like the constant checking with (and trying to out-maneuver) the other civs, but the number of keystrokes and mouse clicks needed to arrive at, say, a mutually acceptable lump sum of gold makes it very tedious. Is there an easier way? Maybe cleaning my mouse would help.

What's funny here, though, is that I find non-OCC games tedious when you have 200 or so captured workers and a zillion military units running around. So, for me, OCC is a break from tedium.

Yeah. This is my first real OCC game, and I'm amazed at how fast and easy it is micromanaging OC instead of 15 or 20. I already play mostly on tiny map to shorten the games.

GarP2

[message edited to get rolleyes in the right place]

[ToeTruck]

Tribute, Keystrokes, and Mouse Clicks

I messed that up a couple of times and learned my lesson when the Zulus demanded a tech that I had just gotten 2 turns before but was hedging on giving them yet. I reloaded and did it right [a learning game after all].

Yep, I did that once. It might have been with the Zulus, too. They demanded Literature and I was about halfway through building the Great Library. I clicked "Take your empty threats elsewhere" and was dead within two turns.

When playing a one-city-civ, I always pay tribute. I figure it's a cheap way to make a rival Polite.

I kind of like the constant checking with (and trying to out-maneuver) the other civs, but the number of keystrokes and mouse clicks needed to arrive at, say, a mutually acceptable lump sum of gold makes it very tedious. Is there an easier way?

I've gotten used to it, but it took a while. You're right, though, most of the keystrokes in an OCC game are used on the Diplo screen.

How's the game going?

- TT

[Theseus]

I never commented, TT... clap:

I'm not a big OCC player, but I think the lessons learned are invaluable. For instance, even in regular games I've evolved into more of a Sell! Sell! Sell! (and Gift! Gift! Gift!) strategy myself.

Kudos.

[ToeTruck]

Thanks Theseus,

I appreciate your comments.

I think the lessons learned are invaluable.

Yes, that's the reason I play OCC. The focus needed to play a one-city-civ cuts to the chase. The wasted effort, the chafe of haphazard play, falls away.

What I've learned playing OCC has made me a far better player in non-OCC. Once you learn to get by with less, the abundance of a regular game is like a godsend, plentiful beyond your wildest dreams.

(at least that's how I see it).

- TT

[GarP2]

TT -

The game is now not going so good. I caught the other civs in research and had to start researching techs myself. I was checking in with the other civs every few turns and all of a sudden they just started pulling ahead in research and wouldnt sell me any techs. They got a couple of techs ahead, and then after I started building spaceship parts, England refused to trade or sell me aluminum any more. England and Russia both built the UN and somebody called a vote, but no one won (I didnt get to vote, of course). After that they started going for spaceship techs.

I will play it out a ways, just in case someone gets generous, but England has the only spare aluminum and there is probably nothing I can do. The game is on a tiny map and it seems that there are only 4 of each resource. Not likely one more will pop up in my tiny corner.

Not sure what I did wrong. Even when I didnt have any techs/luxuries to sell/give, I still gave small gold tributes every few turns. What kind of leverage is needed toward the end to keep the other civs from denying the critical resource? I guess it's as simple as having something that they want, so the problem probably just relates back to my development throughout the game, rather than just mishandling something toward the end. I wasnt able to stay up with your build list time frame exactly, but was pretty close, i.e., within an item or 2. One thing I know I blew was that I was not able to take the time out to build workers in time for railroad (discovered steam unexpectedly in another civs diplomacy screen box and traded for it immediately), so with only 3 workers railroading was much slower than it should have been. Another thing was that I didnt have a library built by the time education was discovered.

Any ideas appreciated. I had some questions as I was playing the game. Ill look back through and try to remember them.

I'll also try again after this game gasps it's last.
GarP2

[ToeTruck]

GarP2,

If you post a save, I can check it out.

How much cash do you have? Aluminum shouldn't cost too much. What were you paying them before?

I haven't played a tiny map for a bit, so I'm not familiar with the dynamics. The end game might play differently on a tiny map under Monarch.

- TT

[GarP2]

TT-

Well, I'm still in the game. Had to cut research to 10% to save up cash, but they settled for 420g (seems like it was 350g before). By doing wealth when I cant research a spaceship component (while I'm researching the next tech), and supplementing that w 10% research/90% commerce when Aluminum runs out, I've been able to buy Aluminum and limp along, but I'm only getting 1-2 spaceship components built per Aluminum purchase, so it looks kinda bleak. I dont see why England doesnt just shut me down and eliminate the threat. They Did get caught trying to investigate my city, so maybe they dont know where I am on my spaceship construction.

BTW, how do you play back through a saved game? My playback at the end of the game doesnt even work. Thats been bad ever since CivIII v 1.09, which I played until I loaded PTW. I thought PTW included a CivIII update that would fix that, but it didnt. Should I have done a CivIII patch before loading PTW?

I read the forum at work on my lunchtime, so I'll have to post a save from home. Thanks for the help. Any feedback is appreciated.

GarP2

[GarP2]

TT -

Here is the game file. I've looked back at the game, and the starting position may be somewhat light on shield production. Commerce appears to adequate, reaching your criterion of 350 beakers (they're actually erlenmeyer flasks)/turn at 100% research. Still, I'm sure I mishandled several things in the game, and welcome any feedback.

Thanks,
GarP2

[playshogi]

This is an excellent strategy, but my game falls apart in the Modern Age. I fall way behind in tech and my last game the AI had 5 spaceship parts built while I was still building Apollo. Ironically this was the one civ that was on an isolated island that I had "gifted" many techs.

[GodKing]

Almost makes me want to play a game. Almost.