WW2-1979 Graphics Showcase

[Case]

Originally posted by Leonidas
BTW, I think it would be kinda cool to have a WWII scenario playable only as Germany, and which has multiple events and unit files, to show the historical military production of Germany throughout the war.



Germany started to rely more and more on the StuG variants, Hetzers, and halftrack variants to fight many late war battles.

It should be noted that the only reason those AFVs were produced in such large numbers was because they were quicker and cheaper to produce then turreted tanks. The Germans were fully aware that they weren't as effective as 'proper' tanks, but chose to produce them as an emergancy measure to compete with the vast number of tanks flowing from Soviet and Allied factories.

In addition, assault gun production appears to have been assisted by inter-branch struggles within the German Army - the assault guns were manned by the Artillery branch, who fought tooth and nail for lots of assault guns, aparently because serving in them was the only way artillerymen could win the highest medals! [so much for the myth of the ruthlessly sensible and efficant German Army!].

So basically, you'd want to be careful that in a scenario you don't shoehorn players into using too many of what were inferior AFVs.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Case


It should be noted that the only reason those AFVs were produced in such large numbers was because they were quicker and cheaper to produce then turreted tanks. The Germans were fully aware that they weren't as effective as 'proper' tanks, but chose to produce them as an emergancy measure to compete with the vast number of tanks flowing from Soviet and Allied factories.

In addition, assault gun production appears to have been assisted by inter-branch struggles within the German Army - the assault guns were manned by the Artillery branch, who fought tooth and nail for lots of assault guns, aparently because serving in them was the only way artillerymen could win the highest medals! [so much for the myth of the ruthlessly sensible and efficant German Army!].

So basically, you'd want to be careful that in a scenario you don't shoehorn players into using too many of what were inferior AFVs.

Case:

Great info

Although, the German halftracks were actually quite complex and expensive to produce (in comparison to US HT, but less expensive than tanks). Apparently the working gear systems were mind-boggling in their intricate design.

You are right, I wouldn't want to shoehorn players. But it would be interesting to follow historical lines of research for a Germany-only scenario. If Tigers were no longer produced by July, 1944, then I think it would be interesting to have Tiger production stop during that period.

To make up this shortfall, and as an option for expensive Panthers and other tanks, the player could rely on Anti-tanks such as the 88mm, Hetzers, StuGs, halftracks, etc.

Panthers and other tanks would still be available (they would be expensive). However, as an alternative, the player would have a variety of less expensive, but still useful, alternatives. For example, do you produce one Panther tank or three 88mm ATGs? Or three Pz Grenadier halftracks?

There would a trade-off - much like the situation Germany experienced during WWII.

It might prove to be an interesting scenario.

Don't mind me, it's just that the wargamer in me comes out once and a while

Cheers!

[fairline]

Originally posted by Case


It should be noted that the only reason those AFVs were produced in such large numbers was because they were quicker and cheaper to produce then turreted tanks. The Germans were fully aware that they weren't as effective as 'proper' tanks, but chose to produce them as an emergancy measure to compete with the vast number of tanks flowing from Soviet and Allied factories.

So basically, you'd want to be careful that in a scenario you don't shoehorn players into using too many of what were inferior AFVs.

StuGs and JagdPanzers were also an extremely quick and effective way to get the latest AT gun into an AFV without waiting for a new turret design, and also extend the life of outmoded tank chassis that couldn't carry the latest weaponry. The Hetzer, StuG 40G, JagdPz IV, JagdPanther and JagdTiger were superb weapons and far better than the US turreted TDs. They were obviously hampered by having no traversing turret, but this was offset by low sillhouette, excellent armour and better AT guns than all but the very best Allied guns.

Don't forget that the only thing that could take on a T34 in early '42 was the StuG IIIF; the contemporary versions of the PzIII and IV were no match at the time.

[fairline]

Originally posted by Leonidas

If Tigers were no longer produced by July, 1944, then I think it would be interesting to have Tiger production stop during that period.

The Germans stopped making the Tiger VIE in August '44 because the Tiger VIB had been in production since February; it remained in production until March '45, although in inadequate numbers to anything like stem the flow of Shermans and T34s.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by fairline


The Germans stopped making the Tiger VIE in August '44 because the Tiger VIB had been in production since February; it remained in production until March '45, although in inadequate numbers to anything like stem the flow of Shermans and T34s.

Hi

Yes, the Tiger VIE stopped production in August'44, while delivers of the tank ceasd in June'44.

You are probably referring to the King Tiger as the next version.

The Tiger VIE was followed by the Tiger II Ausf B or King Tiger tank (a much more powerful tank). I believe only about 485 were built.

Production of the King Tiger commenced at Kassel in December, 1943. It first saw action in May, 1944.

IMO, the King Tiger was another example of Hitler thinking bigger is better, while whittling away scarce resources.

The Germans would have been far better off producing lots of Pz IVJs, Hetzers and StuG variants, to help match the armour rolling off the Soviet and American assembly lines.

Cheers!

[Leonidas]

Just when you thought it was safe to climb out of your panzers, along comes another German halftrack variant -hehe

This is the SdKfz 250/10 3.7cm PaK 35/36 Anti-tank Gun:

[fairline]

Amusing myself with geeky tank fact-fight

Originally posted by Leonidas
You are probably referring to the King Tiger as the next version.

The Tiger VIE was followed by the Tiger II Ausf B or King Tiger tank

PzKpfw VI Ausf B / Tiger VI Ausf B / Konigstiger / Tiger II. Not Tiger II Ausf B

Production of the King Tiger commenced at Kassel in December, 1943. It first saw action in May, 1944.

We were both wrong. Production started January '44 -Henschel were still changing the turret in December 43. It was issued to training units in Feb - May '44 and first saw combat in June '44.

[fairline]

Originally posted by curtsibling
Mr Fairline, any chance of a B-29 and He111?
These are for ToT Dictator 3...

If you are too busy it is OK.

Sorry Curt, just noticed this. When do you need them?

[Leonidas]

Re: Amusing myself with geeky tank fact-fight

Originally posted by fairline

We were both wrong. Production started January '44 -Henschel were still changing the turret in December 43. It was issued to training units in Feb - May '44 and first saw combat in June '44.

Hi

It probably depends on the type of source you use for information.

According to my sources, the information is not wrong.

My source for this information is the authoritative hardcover edition of Bishop's [Editor] "Complete Encyclopedia of Weapons of WWII".

On page 16, he states that production of the King Tiger tank began in Kassel in December 1943 alongside the regular Tiger tank. The first 50 King Tigers were completed with the Porsche turret.

All subsequent King Tigers had the Henschel turret, and a total of 485 tanks were built.

He further goes on to state that the King Tiger first saw action in May, 1944, on the Eastern Front, and in August, 1944 on the Western Front.

Further:

In a book by Drs Hart and Hart called "German Tanks of WWII", they state that the first production models of the King Tiger were delivered in January, 1944 (since production had started in December, 1943 using the Porsche turret) (page 135).

It's easy enough to be mistaken about, since any number of authors can overlook a date or two or miss something by a month.

Geekiness lives!

[Case]

Originally posted by fairline
StuGs and JagdPanzers were also an extremely quick and effective way to get the latest AT gun into an AFV without waiting for a new turret design, and also extend the life of outmoded tank chassis that couldn't carry the latest weaponry.

Good point. However, if the Germans had both the time and resources, they would have put the guns into proper tanks.

The Hetzer, StuG 40G, JagdPz IV, JagdPanther and JagdTiger were superb weapons and far better than the US turreted TDs.

What criteria are you using here? The American TDs knocked up a fairly good reputation, with the M-36 and M-18 both being highly popular with their crews.

It should be noted that the low-profile and no traverse combination only really worked when the AFVs were used for purely defencive tasks. I've read that the Germans equiped a Panzer battalion with JagdPanthers only to find them unsuitable for the offencive missions Tank battalions were meant to be capable of. In contrast, the American TDs were intended for offencive tasks.

Don't forget that the only thing that could take on a T34 in early '42 was the StuG IIIF; the contemporary versions of the PzIII and IV were no match at the time.

I guess that you could observe that the only WW-2 era AFVs capable of taking on an M1 Abrams would be the German 150mm SP howitzers and American SP 8" Guns. That still doesn't make them something you'd want to pit against an M1 anything but the most desperate situations

[Catfish]

Sorry, but I only just saw this.

Originally posted by GoPostal
Does anyone know a good units recolouring tutorial?

Originally posted by Case
What do you mean by 'units recolouring'?

I realise it's a bit cryptic, but what did you think he meant?

If you've got Paint Shop Pro, read this tutorial. Follow steps 1 to 7 and then 10. If you have Civ2 MGE or less, add step 11. That'll give you a basic single-colour replacement. If you want to get fancier using retouch brushes or layers, check out the Graphics Workshop.

[Leonidas]

More halftrack goodness

And just in time for the holidays. . .

This is the German SdKfz 250-7 81mm Mortar Halftrack:

[Eivind IV]

When Eivind is bored, he makes units

A brand new Panther F!

[Eivind IV]

...And the Jagdpanther

EDIT: updated with texture

[Leonidas]

Fortunately for us you have some time on your hands, Kobra.

Nice job

Cheers!