A study of Hut Outcomes

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by War4ever
STYOM appreciate the answer....however that theory is false, too many times a hut right next to the city radius produces barbs.... and i always play with the grid on

and i use MGE ....

You got me there, then... I have tested this too and never get barbs from a square adjacent to a city radius... but then, I'm playing 2.42 and SP (I gather most of your games are MP). My own tests produced the same lack of barbs, and same 3:1:1 ratio, as samson's.

Since this isn't a communication issue, I'll step back and let the man himself answer.

[Boco]

What determines the number of barbs created (1 v. 8)?

This is getting to be a long thread, so I hope I didn't miss an existing answer.

[samson]

Originally posted by War4ever
ok....heres one..... if the safe zone as you say is 3 squares from the city....woudn't that mean a hut one square away from the radius would not produce barbs?

yet i have had many barbs within this area?

You're not understanding the distinction between "squares away" and distance.

Distance is a concept used throughout Civ2 and figures in the calculation of bribery costs and caravan delivery payments among others.

In determining the distance between two points, tiles sharing an edge are a distance of 1; tiles touching at a corner are a distance of 1.5. There have been many posting in the strategy forum over the years talking about 'distance' and how to calculate it.

While most of the tiles adjacent to a city radius square are at a distance of 3, some are at a distance of 4 and thus are not in the barb-free zone. These squares are the ones which are 2 corners and an edge from the city square: 2 x 1.5 + 1 = 4. (As with all Civ2 math fractions are dropped, e.g. 4.5 = 4).

By the way, the notion of a city radius itself is defined by the concept of distance. A city radius is all squares at a distance of 2 or less from the city center. That's why the corners of the square are excluded, they are at a distance of 3.

[DrSpike]

Essentially using hexagons is more intuitive, but they didn't want civ to look boring, so you have to adapt your thinking when it comes to distance.

[Campo]

Samson,

I'm late to this party, but I just want to say how impressed I am with both your research and your presentation. Both are first-rate.

I don't recall any mention of this thread being linked to the Great Library. It certainly deserves to be. I'm going to "nominate" it in the Great Library discussion thread.

Great work!

[samson]

Originally posted by Boco
What determines the number of barbs created (1 v. 8)?

This is getting to be a long thread, so I hope I didn't miss an existing answer.

I don't know. I didn't finish testing barbarian results because there seemed to be a lot of info out there already on barbs. If no one replies here, I may look into it.

Campo - thanks much.

[Elephant]

I dont think the GreatLibrary is being kept up anymore...

[samson]

Originally posted by Elephant
I dont think the GreatLibrary is being kept up anymore...

Somebody must've discovered Electricity.

[DrSpike]

Sharp......very sharp.

[War4ever]

ok thanks for explaining guys, sorry i am a bit daft sometimes....

as for games, i play sp sometimes these days, but most mp....though i played alot of sp in my day

[solo]

In my latest game, I have a confirmation to your 8 city nomad rule. Shortly after my 8th city was founded, I got a second nomad on a continent where I had a nomad from a previous hut.

[samson]

Solo,

Thanks.

By the way, I thought of a good way to exploit the STYOM corollary to the continent rule. Before founding your first city, locate a few huts on nomad-suitable terrain using any mercenary units you have acquired. Then found your first two cities using both original settlers and tip those huts immediately afterwards. Since you now have a city founded and no nomads, you can get nomads. And since the hut algorithm doesn't yet know you have cities on that continent, you have a 47% chance of nomads on that turn. Next turn it drops to 20%.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by samson

Somebody must've discovered Electricity.

If someone has discovered Electricity, I bet it must be samson or a friend of his.
Therefore, samson must be held responsible for the GL not being kept up any longer

[solo]

Samson,

Great tip, thanks!

I have actually done that in the past without knowing that the odds were much better in my favor, just figuring I got a little lucky. Now I'll be more prurposeful in trying to time this, but will probably be rewarded by a barb outcome, instead!

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by samson

By the way, I thought of a good way to exploit the STYOM corollary to the continent rule. Before founding your first city, locate a few huts on nomad-suitable terrain using any mercenary units you have acquired. Then found your first two cities using both original settlers and tip those huts immediately afterwards. Since you now have a city founded and no nomads, you can get nomads. And since the hut algorithm doesn't yet know you have cities on that continent, you have a 47% chance of nomads on that turn. Next turn it drops to 20%.

I wonder why the game doesn't recognize a city being built earlier the same turn for purposes of the continent rule... but does notice a city being built the same turn for purposes of the no-city rule. Because if you found a city and tip a hut the same turn, barbarians can appear.

I'm sure that means something, but I'm not sure what.