New "Ancient Empires" PBEM created

[SlowThinker]

I will play on Wed, as I am busy today and tomorrow.
I will use the new tool in place of a MP with Straybow, except somebody objects.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Sinbad
Furthermore, we intend to scout our borders in the most peaceful manner left to us. Babylon objected strongly to stacking scouts on the T-line and we listened patiently. Then they expelled our diplomat, needed to bypass geezer ZOCs without stacking. We probably have to bribe the geezers now,

How clever! Now Persia sees 2 lines from the Spine downwards to Babylon because of ZOCs of the gezeers. Persia will bribe the gezeers, and suddenly the ZOCs will dissapear and she will see only 1 line down. So Persia will have to send scouts downhill.

Originally posted by Sinbad
We probably have to bribe the geezers now, but according to our tests, this will not start a war. Babylon will do that.

An interesting argumentation. Similarly if Persia moves her hordes in Babylon, "this will not start a war, Babylon will do that".


Sinbad somewhat forgot the bold text here:

Originally posted by The Immo
Babylon claims a right to take steps of any kind and at any time in order to expel the invaders from the orange line (see the map). However Babylon will warn Persia once more before these steps will be performed.

The orange line is a part of disputed areas and Babylon issued this note after patient requests that Persia doesn't stack units and doesn't build forts there.

To be compared:
The Babylonian note:
issued only after Persia brought stacks/forts in disputed areas
guarantees a prior warning
Two Persian notes: (they are about 3 pages back, Babylon is still awaiting an explanation)
issued when Babylon had only skirmishers in the disputed areas
contain direct war threats without warnings

[Kull]

Egyptian interpreters continue to labor over the Babylonian tablets. Here is the original cuneiform:

Originally posted by SlowThinker
An interesting argumentation. Similarly if Persia moves her hordes in Babylon, "this will not start a war, Babylon will do that".

Sinbad somewhat forgot the bold text here: The orange line is a part of disputed areas and Babylon issued this note after patient requests that Persia doesn't stack units and doesn't build forts there.

And here the key phrases are translated:

1) Persia moves her hordes in Babylon = Persia moves her hordes in Persia

2) disputed areas = persia

[SlowThinker]

Bab 2400

Sorry for the delay.
Centurions and GL for Persia applied by the new tool.
More text later.

[SlowThinker]

Bab 2400 report

We completed a deal with Hittites and we acquired a technology of Centurions.

Eshunnians returned home to Babylon, Ellipians will return next year (but they still support a farmer).

We ensured a free way to Egypt for The Egyptian Tramplers of patches of Agade. We are reminding Egypt is west. Direction north is crowded by Babylonian units.

[Kull]

Egyptian Traders continue to follow their peaceful pursuits, with ever a worried eye upon the dark clouds gathering to the Northeast.

[SlowThinker]

Incredible things today ...

This morning :
The Immortal wakes up and studies a technological cooperation between Persia and Egypt: Egypt got Aristocracy from Persia now, and switched to Mathematics. Persia is researching Navigation already. With Nav and Math Persia will complete Geometry and build Archimedes' workshop. So after 3-5 years (so called "turns") Persia may have about 50 Legions I.
Afternoon:
Babylonian specialists research a way how to defend Babylon against 50 Legions attacking from favourable positions in disputed areas. They find out only solution: to acquire SuperLegions (Cohorts or Legion Tactics) soon, as they make Legions I quite obsolete.
In the evening:
Sinbad comes to The Immortal and offers a deal: "avoiding arms race" and not researching Cohorts for about 10 years ...

Although Babylon respects old deals with Persia (like Eshunna and Ellipi), we don't conclude deals with barbarians who know only speech of strength, pressure and intimidation, especially if they refused any dialogue so far.
But if Persia leaves the disputed areas and agrees they will be reserved for weak units until a border resolution, in that case we will look forward to talks about things like avoiding Cohorts and Geometry, establishing borders and making long peace.

edit: "as they make Legions I quite obsolete."

[Kull]

More crocodile tears from Babylon. Last time Pharoah looked, it was Babylon was the first to introduce Cohorts into Mesopotamia. Since they already possessed extremely defensible mountain, hill, forest, and River Borders between their territory and Persia's single line of hills, it's pretty clear who has "offense" on the brain.

Does the King of Babylon prefer to receive his "Get Well Soon!" cards on papyrus or clay?

[SlowThinker]

Pharaoh, do you really believe anybody could take any your word seriously? When your lies are so transparent, like "we have been moving AWAY from the city [Agade] ever since, every turn."?


Now again: anybody can look on the map and confront your lies with the reality ...

[Straybow]

The green-bedecked one has a point here. The desire for exploration should not aggravate an already sensitive situation.

Can we be done with accusations of lies and move to more discussion of a lasting peace?

[SlowThinker]

I hope the white one noticed the green one pronounced his first word "lie" only after standing for plenty of these words from Egyptian/Persian mouths.
Maybe this word wouldn't be so widespread if the white one complained before...

[Kull]

Originally posted by Straybow
The green-bedecked one has a point here. The desire for exploration should not aggravate an already sensitive situation.

Can we be done with accusations of lies and move to more discussion of a lasting peace?

The green bedecked one is an aggressive and paranoid neighbor. An armed peace is about the best one can hope for, but good relations with him will never be possible - as EVERY neighbor can clearly attest from personal experience. In the meantime, I will waste my time and respond to the Babylonian accusation, since again he has used his lies to distort the facts in this case.

Anyone can go back to pages 102-104 and read the series of posts that take us through 2460 and see that Egypt had no proof there even WAS a "City of Agade" and we had asked to view it as part of a good-will, unilateral border de-escalation on the part of Egypt. Of course this request was refused by Babylon in the midst of the usual blizzard of lies and deceptions, so by 2460 Egypt gave up and left the area, and we have been moving away ever since.

Which is EXACTLY WHAT PHAROAH said. Do not be decieved by the Great Serpent of Babylon. He is not on a first name basis with Truth, as she is a stranger in his house.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Kull
The green bedecked one is an aggressive and paranoid neighbor. ...

...Egypt had no proof there even WAS a "City of Agade" and we had asked to view it as part of a good-will, unilateral border de-escalation on the part of Egypt.

We have berated our trade partner for paranoia. But if Ra feels this way, why persist in aggravating paranoia with requests for good-will exposure of defenses and targets (as a paranoid ruler would read requests)?

(Did not your scouts report their position as "Near Agade," or perhaps they are mercenaries with no home in Egypt to report to?)

[Kull]

Originally posted by Straybow
We have berated our trade partner for paranoia. But if Ra feels this way, why persist in aggravating paranoia with requests for good-will exposure of defenses and targets (as a paranoid ruler would read requests)?

Keep in mind the location in question is 1000's of miles from the heart of Mesopotamia, and we had no indication that Babylonian expansion had moved so far south. And without the existence of an actual city, any claim of "borders" was simply assumed to be one more lie from Babylon. FWIW, Egypt makes no attempt to hide the cities which are distant from our heartland, even though we suspect this information is handed off immediately to Babylon. So we consider Babylonian attempts to hide it's distant border cities as simply more evidence - as if ANY were needed - that the Great Serpent is paranoid beyond all reasoning.

(Did not your scouts report their position as "Near Agade," or perhaps they are mercenaries with no home in Egypt to report to?)

Frankly, that didn't occur to me. But even if it had, that would not have been proof that Agade existed in that location. It could just as easily have been a city a few tiles south of Ur.

[Peaster]

"Lies"? In Persia, we believe that most Kings do not deliberately lie, though the reports we read here are often one-sided, and the views of one King in particular are quite distorted, malicious and overstated. And of course, that King throws the L-word around the most!

King Sinbad has accepted a plea for asylum from the Babylonian geezers (skirmishers) encamped for years on the frigid peaks of the upper Zagros mountains. We contributed a small sum for new blankets and boots. Our Foreign Minister confirms that we are still formally at peace with the Mesopotamian barbarians.

Persians snicker at Babylon's new predictions ("incredible things today..."). We wonder who sold them their consistently inaccurate, extremely gloomy crystal ball. We are saddened that Babylon refuses to discuss an arms treaty. At the same time, we are not eager to start new talks with such unpleasant and unreliable folk.