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  • By his own admission, the ruler of Babylon has acknowledged that he agreed to Egyptian scouting of the area south of the Euphrates "to include Zibbar". How he can take offense at the position of our units in that area is quite a mystery.

    As to the unit north of the Euphrates, indeed it was not supposed to be there. However, in the period following the end of the war, Pharoah has learned that General Mekret took advantage of the opportunity to scout areas empty of Babylonian cities. Perhaps one day those lands will be occupied. For now they are not. Egypt has long been a nation of explorers and that is all we are doing. There is absolutely nothing in that region which could possibly be considered "threatened" by these weak units.

    In fact, the extremely paranoid reaction of the Babylonians has now caused doubts to grow in Egypt about their allegedly peaceful intentions. Accordingly, the Babylonian Leader may consider previous verbal, good faith agreements on territorial distribution in the region to be null and void. For the first time, Pharoah finds himself listening to advisors who proclaim the need for a security zone of our own between Babylon and Egypt.

    We will begin withdrawing Egyptian units from the area immediately near Babylonian cities, and propose that the future borders be set at points equidistant between the existing Babylonian and Egyptian cities in the Mesopotamian region. Anything less than this will not provide the security which Egypt suddenly realizes it now needs.

    With just a little good will - an understanding that an Ally is not a Threat - the Babylonian leader could have avoided this unhappy outcome. Perhaps his massive security zones will bring the same peace of mind that would have come from having a friendly neighbor.
    Attached Files
    To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

    From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Pharaoh
      With just a little good will - an understanding that an Ally is not a Threat - the Babylonian leader could have avoided this unhappy outcome.
      Yes, now I understand how silly I was. I surrender. But I am asking a right to keep Zibbar and three squares around (including three squares of the river).

      Edit: this was only a joke of Gzhu-gzhu. Please excuse me for any confusion.
      Last edited by SlowThinker; April 6, 2006, 04:51.
      Civ2 "Great Library Index": direct download, Apolyton attachment

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      • A messenger has arrived in Hattusas bearing news of great import. Our noble servant and minor functionary, a frequent guest in the house of the Babylonian Consulate in Ninevah, reports on a series of strained messages between our southern brothers.

        We have servants trained to read the inscrutible writings of the Egyptians. On some occasions we must review an old message, and we have noticed that different servants will translate the same message in different ways. It has occured to us that we could take offense when none is intended.

        We must be careful, O Kings, that we err not in ascribing ill intent to our brothers. We have many tasks that demand our attention, and the Gods of Real Life to appease. Let us read each other's missives in the best frame of mind, that we may keep the peace for which we fought.

        Old messages are sometimes misplaced or forgotten. Agreements made in decades past are neglected, but not of malice. Brothers, gracefully forgive your neighbor these trespasses, these unduly harsh words.
        (\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
        (='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
        (")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)

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        • Gzhu-gzhu? Do you play with the governmental communication system again?? Clear off!

          I am sory, Gzhu-gzhu is a being that came with me from dimension Krexlic to Earth.
          He has an absurd sense of humor sometimes.
          Please notice that the last statement of the Babylonian government is not valid.
          Civ2 "Great Library Index": direct download, Apolyton attachment

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          • First I should react to several demonstrations of Pharaoh's amazement:

            Originally posted by Pharaoh
            By his own admission, the ruler of Babylon has acknowledged that he agreed to Egyptian scouting of the area south of the Euphrates "to include Zibbar". How he can take offense at the position of our units in that area is quite a mystery.
            Mystery? Pharaoh, please try to read again:
            SlowThinker:
            > We won't hinder that you reveal the southern non-desert coast of Euphrat ...
            > including Zibbar, but please report movement of your units here.
            Pharaoh:
            We ... will notify you when our units reach the environs of the River.

            Originally posted by Pharaoh
            As to the unit north of the Euphrates, indeed it was not supposed to be there. However, in the period following the end of the war, Pharoah has learned that General Mekret took advantage of the opportunity to scout areas empty of Babylonian cities. Perhaps one day those lands will be occupied. For now they are not. Egypt has long been a nation of explorers and that is all we are doing. Egypt has long been a nation of explorers and that is all we are doing.
            We have no complaints if Pharaoh decides it is more important if Egyptian units whirl sand in the desert near Babylon than they defend Egypt or secure order in Egyptian cities.
            But we will be happy if you don't intrude where you should not, you announce your position where you should announce it, and in case you forget to announce and Babylon asks then you don't conceal your units.

            Originally posted by Pharaoh
            In fact, the extremely paranoid reaction of the Babylonians has now caused doubts to grow in Egypt about their allegedly peaceful intentions.
            Yes, also the fact we intended to offer such a strong unit like a Chariot IV for sale to Egypt supports the idea of dubious Babylonian intents.

            Originally posted by Pharaoh
            Perhaps his massive security zones will bring the same peace of mind that would have come from having a friendly neighbor.
            Please notice Babylonian officials came up with a massive but clear security zones in desert only AFTER Husmushnak had read three messages in which General Mekret tried to conceal his units. We supposed the clear security zones would be only way how to eliminate a possible conflict source in future.

            And a last point: the non-scouting policy and security zones have a signification only if they are taken seriously. If a scout must break a clear treaty and risk an international incident and a "paranoid" reaction of the neighbour and the scout is still sent in the action then for the land owner it signifies something is wrong.
            Civ2 "Great Library Index": direct download, Apolyton attachment

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            • Now important statements of The Immortal

              From my one-sided view it is hard to say whose reaction was more paranoid. Anyway MY paranoid reaction is not based on any direct "threat" from Egyptian Chariots. The reason why I am bothered is that I have a neighbour who seems to be unable to respect mutual deals and for whom the good relations with Babylon have so low value that he is ready to risk them so easily.
              What I don't apprehend is that my neighbour thinks I will agree not to respect deals is somewhat normal. And that Babylon will simply behave like nothing happened and will look forward to sign new deals with Egypt.
              Such deals would have no value for Babylon.

              In fact, the extremely paranoid reaction of the Babylonians has now caused doubts to grow in Egypt about their allegedly peaceful intentions. Accordingly, the Babylonian Leader may consider previous verbal, good faith agreements on territorial distribution in the region to be null and void.
              We will begin withdrawing Egyptian units from the area immediately near Babylonian cities, and propose that the future borders be set at points equidistant between the existing Babylonian and Egyptian cities in the Mesopotamian region. Anything less than this will not provide the security which Egypt suddenly realizes it now needs.
              Ah. I understand.
              There was a security agreement between Egypt and Babylon.
              Egypt broke this agreement.
              Then Egypt tried to conceal it.
              Then Egypt tried to conceal it.
              Then Egypt tried to conceal it.
              Then Egypt tried to conceal it.
              Then Babylon dared to complain.
              Conclusion: Egypt will forgive the incident if Babylon will give up a large part of his territory.

              Accordingly, the Babylonian Leader may consider previous verbal, good faith agreements on territorial distribution in the region to be null and void.
              Verbal? The copy in Babylon is on a high-class papyrus. We keep it in a strongbox and we lubricated it by a very distasteful oil.

              In last 10 messages that went between Mekret, Husmushnak, Pharaoh and me Babylon always expressed a will to supply any possible security warranties to Egypt, especially these that were asked by Babylon. And under normal situation we would happily provide sense of security for Egypt by some special agreement - like fixed observers on sensitive areas of theoretical Babylonian attack. (Except any sale of Babylonian territory in Mesopotamia. We don't plan to sell any territory to Egypt)
              But frankly said at this moment we don't feel enough of will to accomodate Egypt. And for us it looks deals and guarantees with Egypt would have no value: Some agreements are ignored because Egypt is a nation of explorers and they simply like secret expeditions, other agreements turn to be null and void out of the blue...
              Why should I sign any document with Egypt now?

              I will be happy if Pharaoh tries to persuade me that deals with Egypt are worthy ... but so far ... he is extremely successful in the opposite direction.
              Last edited by SlowThinker; April 6, 2006, 05:39.
              Civ2 "Great Library Index": direct download, Apolyton attachment

              Comment


              • There is nothing to discuss. Egypt has no claims on Babylonian territory. However, former Assyrian territory between Babylon and Egypt will be apportioned as indicated in Pharoah's earlier message. The growing paranoia and aggressive statements of the Babylonian leader are apparent to all the world.

                Egyptian units are even now withdrawing from the ever increasing Babylonian claim area. We hope, but have little faith, that Babylon will not use some flimsy pretext to attack those who once guarded them.

                Horus waits.....
                To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

                From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

                Comment


                • We have no clue what the Egyptian magic formula about equidistant points stands for, we only suppose the Egyptian claims are not in discrepancy with the territory liberated by the combined Bab-Pers-Minoan forces under the Babylonian command (i.e. with the Babylonian territory in accordancy with the map we sent to general Mekret).

                  Egyptian units are even now withdrawing from the ever increasing Babylonian claim area.
                  We welcome this statement. As we stated we have no problem with a prearranged and announced movement of Egyptian units in the Security Zone.
                  But we cannot assure security of any non-annouced movement in the Zone, because after the War the area is full of brigands. Your units could be killed by the brigands or by Babylonian patrols that confused Egyptian units with the brigands.

                  Concerning the deal about an acceleration of a return of the Egyptian NONE farmer to Egypt: Babylon is always trying to respect deals under any possible situation. We are still willing to exchange a NONE farmer near Lagash for a NONE farmer near Hourigalzur, but unfortunately the boat that should be used for a farmer transport from Zibbar to Tell Hariri must be used for patrolling purposes until the Egyptian units leave the Babylonian territory. So we will return the 50g (payed for the ship) for now.
                  We offer these ways of transport:
                  a) by land through Dibshiya - 7 turns to Dibshiya, the rest of the route is known for you
                  b) by land along Euphrat - about 12 turns to Tell Hariri
                  c) by a boat from Zibbar - but the start may be delayed by 2-3(?) turns

                  Gzhu-gzhu is watching...
                  Civ2 "Great Library Index": direct download, Apolyton attachment

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by SlowThinker
                    But we cannot assure security of any non-annouced movement in the Zone, because after the War the area is full of brigands. Your units could be killed by the brigands or by Babylonian patrols that confused Egyptian units with the brigands.
                    Kings of the Alliance. Look well upon those words. And cast thy memories back in time to when first you heard such language. Methinks we have discovered the long lost Didanu - he sits upon the throne of Babylon.
                    To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton

                    From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise

                    Comment


                    • Been busy with RL, and the Byzantine Babylonian bureacracy, but managed to play. Persia hopes the heroes of the Great War will find a way to live in peace (though the sniping has been entertaining).
                      Attached Files

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                      • BTW - Persia has had a "no-scouting" policy since the days of Achaemenes. On the other hand, we have sent out our own scouts (skirmishers) to discover the world. Mostly the lands that once belonged to the evil Didanu, which do not yet have clear borders AFAIK. If any King is concerned about our scouts, please inform us, and we will do our best to cooperate.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Peaster
                          though the sniping has been entertaining
                          Entertaining?? These things are very serious!

                          I just got an e-mail from Straybow. My english is weak, but I guess the main question was if I lost my pills or something like that. He also refered me a very good psychiatrist.
                          Then I got another e-mail from Dr. Burns. I guess he is that psychiatrist refered by Stray. Dr. Burns knew about Straybow's e-mail to me and offered a prepared answer full of words about love, peace and appreciation. Unfortunately doctor's e-mail was delayed and I answered to Straybow before I got this e-mail. Anyway it looks Straybow visited Dr. Burns with a copy of last 2 pages of our thread and in a very bad status. He was immediately hospitalized.
                          Straybow's turn may come after one week and I guess he won't be allowed to play Civ2 for a long time. Maybe Zedd could play Hittites as his Ally?

                          I won't be home about 5 days but will visit internet probably.
                          Civ2 "Great Library Index": direct download, Apolyton attachment

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                          • Erm... you guys.... are alright?

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                            • Etchy, I hope you abandoned your naive dreaming about participating in a PBEM game?
                              Civ2 "Great Library Index": direct download, Apolyton attachment

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                              • What's so naive about being in a game. What I find much more interesting is your anti-social behaviour in general, but maybe that's just how you guys play your games. In which case I will refrain from being in games with you

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