New "Ancient Empires" PBEM created

[Straybow]

It's hard to stay "in" the game after waiting a solid month last summer with no turns played. Maybe for some people that is time to plan every move, staying keyed up until their turn comes. Maybe for others it is a formula for inattention that leads to errors. Add, in my case, working overtime and stretching my sleepy head to make the 72 hr deadline for my turn.

Yes, Civ2 isn't made for PBeM and we use some tools to make it work better. The idea of hexedit for the unfreeze is not that it is a cheat, but that it is convenient. Consider:

1. We wait a couple days for each player to have the time to play, and now we wait again for each to replay the turn.
2. Hexedit and go on. ST loses one turn's move for the unit, nobody else suffers.

After all, isn't Civ2Dip a tool for hexediting the save file? It has a safeguard to keep out-of-date barters from being applied by mistake. It has a safeguard to keep the traded unit from being moved more than once in a game-turn. It doesn't have a safeguard to handle the "missed unfreeze" situation.

germanos, I'm sorry you distrust me and feel put out about the shield fix. But if there is no means of agreement then there is nothing to be done now.

Let's get on with the game and replay Babs' 2940.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Kull
So Germanos - deep breath my friend - as someone who grew up in the third world (bangla desh, thailand, brazil), your trip to syria will get you up close and personal to people whose daily life is full of unbelievable hardships (seeing it on TV is NOT the same thing, believe me). In the midst of that, you'll look back on these frustrations and smile. Because, after all - repeat after me - "see #1"

It's not the first time I go there
I was once sort of forced to stay there for 18 months (long story) and had to jobhunt if I were to eat. I even survived operation 'Grapes of Wrath' in Lebanon (no, not as a combattant). It's amazing how the sound of AAA resembles a jackhammer when it wakes you up in the morning
But (or should I say: so) I agree with you on the futility of a game like this. Maybe it is even the cause of my displeasure?

@ Straybow: don't feel too bad about the wondershield episode. I voiced my opposition to it then, and I fully stand behind both the reasons I put forward in support of my case, as well as my decision to allow such a thing for once.

As far as replaying goes: given the time it took to fix your wondershields, I doubt hexediting is quicker then replaying.
As far as I'm conceirned, if SlowThinker would just have posted a new save saying he forgot to unfreeze a unit, it would most probably have resulted in me posting a turn within 24 hours.
As Slowthinker has posted both then and now, he would have to do research to find out how to fix the problem that arised. That doesn't sound like an easy solution to me.
Being hexediting a cheat or not can be debated, but both you and me would probably agree that it will depend on the circumstanses. Just as using the cheat-mode to fix the problems we have experienced could very well NOT be cheating, as a specific use was agreed upon.

@ LaFayette: Thanks for your words, I interprete them as positive. (=you feeling sorry I lost my joy in playing this game)
As far as my understanding of English goes, your current phrasing expresses a negative tone. Maybe the english speakers on our team can tell both LaFayette and me how to express us better.
(or maybe I'm plain wrong and "I feel sorry for you" doesn't have a negative connotation?)

[Peaster]

This game has been a lot of fun for me, so it's hard to imagine quitting. I hope you will think it over, Germanos. For now, let's start playing again !!

Also, I hope that I never become the final authority on English. I live in South Florida, where English is becoming a dead language. But IMHO -

"I pity you" has a negative tone.

"I am sorry about your decision" has a more positive tone, and that' s probably how most of us feel.

"I feel sorry for you" is in between - usually slightly negative. But from the context, I think La Fayette meant it in a positive way... he can clarify this if he wants.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by germanos
As far as replaying goes: given the time it took to fix your wondershields, I doubt hexediting is quicker then replaying.

To clarify this:
I was little bit afraid from hexediting Straybow's shields, but finally I found Civ2Admin was well prepared for that - so it took about 1 hour. IIRC 7 people would have to replay so I think it was a good job.

Determining the way how to hexedit the barter took about 3/4 hour of work (a test was most time consuming). IIRC it is the byte 58H that determines turn and must be upped by +1.
Now a hexedit of a barter would be 1 minute of work for me and little bit more for a man who doesn't have a hexeditor ready.
( BTW the most slow thing for me is the CivDip itself. It is incredibly slow on my PII 233 MHz machine.)

Yaroslav should simply omit the turn-check for unfreezing barters. But I am afraid he has no time to correct bugs in CivDip now.

[La Fayette]

If I understand Peaster's lesson:

I am sorry about Germanos' decision

(since this is a game (Kull's lesson #1) and we are supposed to have fun playing it).

Of course I hope he will change his mind, but I can do no better than cross my fingers.

[Stefan Härtel]

Hey guys,

this is just a message to let you know you made the right decision. I can't keep playing this game. Even if things change in the future (like an internet access at home), I doubt It'll be possible. Keep up the good work and let this PBEM continue until the game is over.

Up the Irons

[Straybow]

Yeah, sometimes I sit in front of this computer and think, "What good is this doing anybody?" I haven't been to a 3rd world country but I've been on service missions to place in the US that are comparable. Kinda puts things in perspective even 20 years later.

As Slowthinker has posted both then and now, he would have to do research to find out how to fix the problem that arised. That doesn't sound like an easy solution to me.

Shhh, be quiet. Let him work, it keeps him out of trouble.

[Kull]

Originally posted by Stefan Härtel
Hey guys,

this is just a message to let you know you made the right decision. I can't keep playing this game. Even if things change in the future (like an internet access at home), I doubt It'll be possible.

Thanks for the update Stefan - it was great having you onboard!

Keep up the good work and let this PBEM continue until the game is over.

I have a feeling some of us might be passing this on to our children.......

[SlowThinker]

germanos, did you notice I posted the replayed Babylonian turn?

[germanos]

I have a severe case of the flu. I slept most of the weekend, and I seem unable to concentrate for more then 30 minutes. Then bed beckons.

edit: managed to finish up.

[germanos]

Operation ‘locust’ launched.

Offensive operations started against Babylon. Principle aim of the assault on the treacherous Babylonians is to secure the Assyrian investments made in Babylonia (during the early years of SlowThinkers reign) that have been nationalized by the Babylonian King one piece at the time.
The initial push has brought our glorious forces victory and significant ground was gained. The Assyrian armies will not hold until vital Assyrian interests are secured.

[germanos]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
(an example: only germanos was against looking at the saves of an ally, and it was accepted (I suppose) ( for the meantime, I may open the case if I get an ally)).
An apparent(?) conclusion: hexediting is agreed .

Both wrong:

hexediting is not allowed. Exeptions could be agreed upon.

Looking at allies saves is not allowed. There is no equivalent in the regular (vanilla) game, neither in SP nor in MP. I see no reason why we should intruduce this.

[SlowThinker]

germanos a steady player?

germanos, I hope the war mean you decided to stay in the game

I suppose you wouldn't go in war as a temporary player. (Similarly we asked Peaster not to do such serious things when he was a Persian sub)

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by germanos
Both wrong:
hexediting is not allowed. Exeptions could be agreed upon.

I only quoted your words...
It is good to see you agree now

Originally posted by germanos
Looking at allies saves is not allowed. There is no equivalent in the regular (vanilla) game, neither in SP nor in MP. I see no reason why we should intruduce this.

But it is your opinion only.
I agree that there is no equivalent in the SP and MP and so it should be agreed with a consensus only ... but this is my opinion only.
But there is no rule about it that would be agreed on.

[SlowThinker]

the Assyrian attack

During the last night three groups of sleeping(!) Babylonian customs officers were massacred! We got a message from the Assyrian King that only a caravan nearby were left alive and will (would? debeest is not here...) have 1 turn to get to safety. What a magnanimousness!

A Babylonian pronouncement
We ask other Kings to think about a far future.
Assyria is the very strongest Empire in he world. It is clear now its final goal is to overrule all the world.
Babylon is not very strong and it cannot resist very long without an outside help.
Imagine how will a good Asyrian strategist continue: he knows Assyria is extremely strong, but it is not stronger than all the rest of the world. So he must take one civilization by one. Assyria will destroy Babylon, in the meantime it will try to worsen relationships with Persia. After getting a pretext (he must come up with another trick than sending a horse in Persia and let it be killed) he will destroy also Persia. Now Assyria is safe from eastern side and can throw all forces south or west...and so on...
Kings, you can be timorous, then you can stay safe now but you will be eaten later. Or you can agree on a wide anti-imperialistic alliance and the Assyrian threat will be destroyed once and for all!