New "Ancient Empires" PBEM created

[Kull]

I've just completed a PBEM version of "Seeds of Greatness", the Ancient Era Empire Building scenario. There are two playable variants, "standard" and Barbarian Wrath (this should be hell-on-wheels in PBEM!) All seven civs are playable (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Greece, Persia, Hatti, & the Minoans) and the game now uses a single Event file (which gives enslavement capability to ALL civs, among other things).

If anyone is interested, the game can be downloaded from here:

http://www.cullivan.com/civ/scenarios/sog/index.htm

The very first "Barbarian Wrath" PBEM has begun! There's a 24 hour time limit for the first 20 turns (that's would be 20 each - thru 3300 BC), 72 hours thereafter. The order of play is as follows:

Hittite - Straybow
Babylonian - SlowThinker
Assyrian - Destroyed
Egypt - Kull
Persia - atawa
Greek - kengel
Minoan - Zedd

(Previous players: diegoami-Hittites, Chris 62-Hittites, tanelorn-Hittites, Civfan-Babylonians, Yop73-Minoans, Steve Clark-Greeks, Stefan Härtel-Persians, Peaster-Persians, germanos-Assyrians, Zedd-Assyrians, La Fayette-Minoans)

House Rules:
1) No Reloading
2) No diplomacy until after the first physical unit contact between two civs.
3) No map sharing until both civs have discovered the "Map Making" advance (does not prohibit sharing jpeg and gif maps during discussions on boundaries, etc.)

[yop73]

I downloaded the scen, and I'm gonna practice a little.
Later, I'll pick a civ, though the Hatti, Minoans and Egyptians sound cool.

Yop

[yop73]

I like the Minoans, so sign me in for them.

[germanos]

Houserules

During this game, some houserules have been discussed.
Many thanks go to SlowThinker who leads the ongoing effort. Thanks to all who have contributed.
Special thanks to Rah who made a thread on some houserules in the MP games he playes. To a large extent our rules expand on ideas posted there, and special adaptations are made for PBEM play.


There is still some debate on some of the rules, but there is a nice set allready established.

Draft 3.0 of the houserules

[Kull]

I've been testing out the "Wrath" variant in a single-person game, and it IS something different, let me tell you. TOTALLY unlike anything you normally see in a scenario.

One thing to consider from a PBEM standpoint - since each player starts with a single city on a huge map of the Eastern Med, it might be best to change the usual rules and give each player 5 turns before sending it on (at least thru turn 70 or the first major Barbarian spawn - whichever comes first). Given the slow build-up of the early game, releasing control of your civ to the AI isn't as crippling as it sounds (plus, everyone else has the same handicap). The alternative is a painfully slow opening game.

I'll be incommunicado from 9/9 thru 9/20, but would be happy to join in on a PBEM game when I return. In the meantime, anyone who's interested can either start without me (I'll take whatever civ is left) or just use the time to get familiar with SoG and learn how to handle the massive Barbarian Onslaughts.

Note: The best preparation is to play as one of the mainland civs like Assyria, Persia, or Babylon - I'm currently playing as Assyria and have THREE hordes assaulting my border cities!

[germanos]

Originally posted by Kull
One thing to consider from a PBEM standpoint - since each player starts with a single city on a huge map of the Eastern Med, it might be best to change the usual rules and give each player 5 turns before sending it on (at least thru turn 70 or the first major Barbarian spawn - whichever comes first). Given the slow build-up of the early game, releasing control of your civ to the AI isn't as crippling as it sounds (plus, everyone else has the same handicap). The alternative is a painfully slow opening game.

Alternatively, we could start with a online MP game to kick it off
A few hours should make a decent beginning. We can then PBEM from there.

[yop73]

So, are we going to play Barbarian wrath?
I thought the normal version.

[yop73]

*BUMP*
We still need other players.
Germanos, which tribe are you going to take?
I'm playing the Minoans, so the rest are still open.

[germanos]

I'll take the Assyrians.

[yop73]

People, it's a great scen. You should really download it, and play it. (and then join this PBEM)

[techumseh]

I agree, it's a great scenario. In fact, one of the best. However, I'm personally not wild about a PBEM where you start by founding your first city. I suspect others might agree with me that a PBEM is more fun with a number of well established empires contending with one another for domination. IMHO, "End of the Bronze Age" would make a more interesting PBEM.

[Stefan Härtel]

Although I agree with tecumseh about personal preferences, I simply have a weakness for this scenario.
I'll take the Persians (duh!)

[yop73]

If Kull wants, he can adjust the scen, so it starts in like 1500 bc., with every empire having like 5 cities, 3 slaves, a '5' size capital and a wonder. (lighthouse for the Minoans please )
What do you think about that?

[Kull]

Well it looks like we're up to four players:

Stefan: Persia (shocking!)
yop73: Minoans
germanos: Assyria
Kull: (Egypt, unless someone else wants them)

A few things to sort out before starting:

1) Start Sequence: There's a couple options here:

A - Just start at the beginning (not recommended - as Tecumseh rightly points out, the opening sequence is great when playing alone but would take forever to do by email)

B - Allow the AI to handle your Civ during portions of the opening sequence. Each person could play 3 turns (or some number) and the next person follows suit - for say the first 30 to 50 turns (faster, but what WILL the AI do to our civs!?!)

C - Simultaneous play. Agree to play a certain number of turns (30 or so) solo, then each person sends their game to a trusted third party. This person then uses the cheat menu to recreate each civ's achievements on a single map and then forwards he "fixed" game to the next person in line. (Sounds good on the surface but I'm not sure how it would work in practice. We'd probably need some "house rules", such as restricting movement to a certain zone around each capital city, prohibiting interaction with AI civs, etc. Also, which AI civ opening position would be chosen? And then there's the not so small matter of finding someone willing to stitch it all together)

D - Multiplayer. As germanos suggested, we all agree to "meet" online for an hour or so and get the game off to a rousing start. This may be the best alternative if we can all agree on a date and time - plus what ARE the tricks for getting multiplayer to work over the Internet? (My only experience is via LAN)

2) Additional Players: Is four enough? Should we wait for others to show up or actively hunt down some more? This is my first PBEM game ever, so you tell me.

3) Standard or Wrath? My preference is Wrath, if only because it's not featured in any other scenario and it WILL shock the bejesus out of anyone who's never experienced it!

4) When to begin: We need to discuss these options, but at some point the game has to start. My vote would be to resolve everything by this coming weekend and start off Friday night or Saturday

Thoughts?

[Kull]

Originally posted by yop73
If Kull wants, he can adjust the scen, so it starts in like 1500 bc., with every empire having like 5 cities, 3 slaves, a '5' size capital and a wonder. (lighthouse for the Minoans please )
What do you think about that?

The only problem here is that we'd be looking at a completely new scenario! It's not a bad idea - and possibly the best solution yet for customizing SoG for PBEM, but there's a LOT that needs to be considered - and implemented:

1) Which Wonder should each Civ receive? This would definitely make the game a little more "Civ3-like" since each Civ would now have a built-in cultural difference. (Egypt with Pyramids would grow faster, Babylon with Hanging Gardens would delay happiness problems, etc) But there's a real possibility for imbalance if not thought out carefully.

2) If the start year goes to 1500 BC (or even 2500), should Techs be granted to reflect this? Or do we just open up in 4000BC , but with more cities and units? (As Tecumseh suggested, the best bet for a 1500 BC game would be "End of the Bronze Age" - but tweaked to add some of the SoG lessons learned)

Again - good idea - but not something that can be implemented immediately.