Looking for some help on a Discworld scenario...

[Cyrion]

Ready for last test!

OK guys, I made a few changes and I'll ask of you a (last?) effort trying to find the problems that might remain hidden in there...

I'll send you the files in a few minutes!

Here is what I changed this time:

1. Added a name list for the cities to be built!
2. "Airbases and airports" are now complete with name, graphics and descriptions!
3. A few problems have been corrected: all civs should now be able to hire heroes, and such...
4. The truncated names problem is corrected
5. A small problem with the Dragons appearance has been corrected
6. The DD monsters (Dragons, Mummies, etc.) will appear more often and be "cheaper", so that hopefully DD will be more agressive
7. The Special-Super-Defense units are now NONE
8. The name of the ruler of Om has been changed to Ossory
9. Modify a few things related to the golems
10. All the messages related to Airlifts have been changed
11. A message has been added upon City of Ee destruction!
12. The Librarian replaces all the historians

And here is what I'll do before the release, in parallel with this last test:
1) Modify readme for a few things: Victory conditions, Librarians, etc...
2) If I have the time, I'll try to look for some Graphics for tax collectors & Co!

Enjoy!

[rjmatsleepers]

Re: Ready for last test!

Originally posted by Cyrion
OK guys, I made a few changes and I'll ask of you a (last?) effort trying to find the problems that might remain hidden in there...

I'll send you the files in a few minutes!

Here is what I changed this time:

1. Added a name list for the cities to be built!
2. "Airbases and airports" are now complete with name, graphics and descriptions!
3. A few problems have been corrected: all civs should now be able to hire heroes, and such...
4. The truncated names problem is corrected
5. A small problem with the Dragons appearance has been corrected
6. The DD monsters (Dragons, Mummies, etc.) will appear more often and be "cheaper", so that hopefully DD will be more agressive
7. The Special-Super-Defense units are now NONE
8. The name of the ruler of Om has been changed to Ossory
9. Modify a few things related to the golems
10. All the messages related to Airlifts have been changed
11. A message has been added upon City of Ee destruction!
12. The Librarian replaces all the historians

And here is what I'll do before the release, in parallel with this last test:
1) Modify readme for a few things: Victory conditions, Librarians, etc...
2) If I have the time, I'll try to look for some Graphics for tax collectors & Co!

Enjoy!

I've played through to about year 54 with A-M - including destroying the lost city, so I got to see the new message. I haven't encountered anything that would be a problem that could delay release.

I like the list of new cities - particularly the first one

I've seen a few dragons and orange meanies, but they've not been a big problem - are they still a bit too much dumbed down?

The librarian and his messages are really good

I haven't yet tried the airbases - I was building up a force of warriors to destroy the temple(?) south of Tort when I was distracted by a sneak attack from Klatch. I was about to start provoking them anyway.

One suggestion - after playing a few times, the scenario becomes slightly easier because you know the location of the lost city and the barbarian villages. Would it be possible to randomise these?

RJM at Sleeper's

[Cyrion]

Re: Re: Ready for last test!

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I've played through to about year 54 with A-M - including destroying the lost city, so I got to see the new message. I haven't encountered anything that would be a problem that could delay release.

Excellent! You were quick!

I hope DoY and Yaroslav won't find any problem either!

I just found that 1 sentence has to be switched between 2 "golem" techs description, so no big deal!!

I like the list of new cities - particularly the first one

I like puns too (and not only good ones...)

I've seen a few dragons and orange meanies, but they've not been a big problem - are they still a bit too much dumbed down?

Yes, that's still a problem!! In the game I'm playing I'll try giving them better stats (movemement for some, A/D for others): that should complicate things a bit...

The librarian and his messages are really good

Yes, I am happy with that now

Suggesting this was a really good idea

I haven't yet tried the airbases - I was building up a force of warriors to destroy the temple(?) south of Tort when I was distracted by a sneak attack from Klatch. I was about to start provoking them anyway.

One suggestion - after playing a few times, the scenario becomes slightly easier because you know the location of the lost city and the barbarian villages. Would it be possible to randomise these?

Sadly no

I think the replay value lies more in the different strategies needed with the various civs!

Or, as Yaroslav won't fail to suggest (), in PBEMs...

[yaroslav]

Ok, playing as Uberwald:

I like a lot these volwes!

This civ is very far-away from the Central Sea: this make them to need to build a huge road system to deploy their merchants into Ank-Morph, but, on the other hand, gives them good money for that

I went first of all against Duschen-Duschen, and I though it was an error. I think Aix-la-Achen and Kromerstadt are high priorities, because at the start of the game you need to open a route to the Central Sea as soon as possible.

I'm enjoing the game: It's summer 26 right now, and I've conquered Duschen-Duschen, Aix-la-Achen, Kromerstadt, Skund, The three cities of Sto province, Zemphis, Rham Nitz, Quim and Pseudopolis. I'm going probably against Ank-Morph in the near future, as I'm not using it as a place to dump merchants anymore. Maybe onmia or Rampton after that - or the two at the same time.

One interesting thing of being so far-away is that my catapults take a huge time to reach their destination so I'm relying a lot in the volwes...

I'm very sad for ending with such a sad sentence, but I think I've found a BUG: The temple of Omn is meant to provide a Chatedral in each city, but it doesn't work until Omnia player discover Moving Pictures, because this Wonder doesn't work if you don't have the Cathredal's technology. This is retracting Omnia from winning some cheap money in her fundy govt until it discover that technology.

Sorry if that is not a bug but rather intented. I suggest to add a new event when this technology is discovered/gained by Omnia to say "Omnia - or the current owner of the temple! - now start to profit from his important network of religious buildings"

Sorry for that.

[yaroslav]

It's spring 40 now, and the Rampton kingdom have been conquered: I divided my set of armies in two bunch, one in the west against Ohulah and one in the East (bigger) against Nothing Guild, that was easily conquered. Later, I went after Lacre it was painfull and only with a combined set of vampires, werevolwes in mountains to attract enemy's attack and suicide catapults Lancre falled. Ohulah was even worse, as they destroyed two armies (my "West" army and other new built from scrath) I sent against it. But after Lacre fall, my eastern vampires take care of that rebel city. Copperhead was easy after that.

After Rampton kingdowms, I went after A-M, and it was difficult becasue these wizzzards are not attackable for my wolves and they defend very well against my vampires.... And I didn't have any catapult left. A bunch of vampires get suicidial, destroyed the strong unit in A-M and now the three cities of A-M (A-M itself, Chirm and Istanzia) are conquered (A-M and Chirm) or near being conquered (Istanzia).

I bet that I'm going to go after Omnia right now and start working on Discovering Moving Pictures so I can get benfit from Onmia's wonder.

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by yaroslav
I'm very sad for ending with such a sad sentence, but I think I've found a BUG: The temple of Omn is meant to provide a Chatedral in each city, but it doesn't work until Omnia player discover Moving Pictures, because this Wonder doesn't work if you don't have the Cathredal's technology. This is retracting Omnia from winning some cheap money in her fundy govt until it discover that technology.

Sorry if that is not a bug but rather intented. I suggest to add a new event when this technology is discovered/gained by Omnia to say "Omnia - or the current owner of the temple! - now start to profit from his important network of religious buildings"

Sorry for that.

OMG, you're fully right: it's a bl**dy bug!

But as you provided an elegant way out of it, I won't get mad at you for having exposed my failure...

Thanks Yaroslav, that one had gone unoticed till now... :d:

I'am currently playing as A-M, and all is going well: I started my attack on Omnia and am currently besieging Kom! 4 barbarian heroes took care of the Citadel, and now I need to bring in a few units to take care of the hordes of Divine Legionnaries entrenched in the city! As I'll have Wizards soon, they'll probably be what I'll use for that!

[rjmatsleepers]

I tried the teleportation and it worked a treat ... except that it is called airlift in the menu. Can that be changed?

Playing as A-M, I was over-ruled a few times and I noticed 2 different messages - one saying the guilds and nobles had gone behind my back and the other saying I'd accepted their advice. I didn't understand what was a different. (I suspect it's a feature in the normal game that I haven't noticed )

Another thing I noticed is that when Omnia is played by the AI, it seems to build quisitors instead of turtles. That's not a problem in PBEM but in SP it makes Omnia easier to deal with than it should be. If you can do anything to encourage Omnia to build turtles, that would be good.

Also, it is possible to destroy the lost city and capture all but one capital before triggering some of the events - building the pyramid near Jelly Belly for example. I wonder whether it is worth triggering these events by the human player capturing particular (Independent?) cities rather than having them time based.

I played a game with Omnia where I'm not trying to conquer everything. I researched a number of the techs that I don't usually bother with. The golems are great (I still don't think I'd bother with them in a real game, but I like them.)

RJM at Sleeper's

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by Cyrion


OMG, you're fully right: it's a bl**dy bug!

But as you provided an elegant way out of it, I won't get mad at you for having exposed my failure...

Thanks Yaroslav, that one had gone unoticed till now... :d:

At your service

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers

Also, it is possible to destroy the lost city and capture all but one capital before triggering some of the events - building the pyramid near Jelly Belly for example. I wonder whether it is worth triggering these events by the human player capturing particular (Independent?) cities rather than having them time based.

My mistake - playing as Om and researching all sorts of techs that I normally ignore I triggered the events very early, so they're clearly not time based.

Anyway, the good news is that it seems to me that the techs and white goods are working fine (apart from the problem pointed out by Yaroslav which I hadn't noticed).

However, as far as I can see, it is not possible for Om to capture Papylos - which means that anyone wanting to play for total conquest can't choose to be Om. One way round it would be to make the turtles amphibious. (I've just realised that perhaps you made one of the other Om units amphibious and I haven't noticed.) That would make the turtles even more powerful, but I suspect it wouldn't matter too much. You could perhaps compensate by reducing their defensive strength - this may be worth doing anyway since they are pretty damn powerful even if a little slow

Incidentally, Om seems to get quite rich quite quickly. Is it worth doing something to reduce its income, or increase its expenditure?

RJM at Sleeper's

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I tried the teleportation and it worked a treat ... except that it is called airlift in the menu. Can that be changed?

As you might (or should ) have read in a post above, this can't be changed without modifying a file in the "core" civII folder, a thing I don't want to do as it would change the name in ALL the games of civ, and not only in this scen! So, we'll have to keep this as it is...

But I don't believe it's a big problem

Another thing I noticed is that when Omnia is played by the AI, it seems to build quisitors instead of turtles. That's not a problem in PBEM but in SP it makes Omnia easier to deal with than it should be. If you can do anything to encourage Omnia to build turtles, that would be good.

I don't know what I could do about that! Making the turtles cheaper don't sound too good, as they are quite strong!

Or maybe I could "group" a few changes to solves different problems in 1 go:
1) reduce their cost to the same as the Quisitors' one
2) Lower their defense from 1 (if they, hopefully, are still stronger on defense than the Quisitors)
3) make them amphibious (so that Papylos can be taken)

What do you think?? Still, I might sure that would make the AI build turtles...

Also, it is possible to destroy the lost city and capture all but one capital before triggering some of the events - building the pyramid near Jelly Belly for example. I wonder whether it is worth triggering these events by the human player capturing particular (Independent?) cities rather than having them time based.

As you realized later, not time based

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
Anyway, the good news is that it seems to me that the techs and white goods are working fine (apart from the problem pointed out by Yaroslav which I hadn't noticed).

That's good!

However, as far as I can see, it is not possible for Om to capture Papylos - which means that anyone wanting to play for total conquest can't choose to be Om. One way round it would be to make the turtles amphibious. (I've just realised that perhaps you made one of the other Om units amphibious and I haven't noticed.) That would make the turtles even more powerful, but I suspect it wouldn't matter too much. You could perhaps compensate by reducing their defensive strength - this may be worth doing anyway since they are pretty damn powerful even if a little slow

Good suggestion, as you can read above!

And maybe changing their role to something else than "attack" might help the AI to build them??

Incidentally, Om seems to get quite rich quite quickly. Is it worth doing something to reduce its income, or increase its expenditure?

Well, they are Fundy! And so, I am thinking that leaving the Temple of Om as it is (which means it doesn't give further money) might well be a good idea...

Too bad, I had found another way to make it work even better than with Yaroslav suggestion...

So it'll stay as it is, with just a little line in the Moving Picture description about the Temple of Om...

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by Cyrion
So it'll stay as it is, with just a little line in the Moving Picture description about the Temple of Om...

Added to the Moving Pictures description: "In the hands of the omnian Theocracy, the clickies can be used in conjunction with the huge infrastructure provided by the Temple of Om to help spreading the word of Om, and of course collect vast tithes... Should an heretic seize the Temple, he could then use the clerical building as the biggest click pit ever and bring happiness in the whole nation..."

Added to the Temple of Om decription:"When the Omnian Church discovers the Moving Pictures tech, the clickies can be used in conjunction with the huge infrastructure provided by the Temple of Om to help spreading the word of Om, and of course collect vast tithes... Should an heretic seize the Temple, he could then use the clerical building as the biggest click pit ever and bring happiness in the whole nation... "

[yaroslav]

Nice

[rjmatsleepers]

Tech tree problem?

In my latest game I've been trying to research (or swap) every available technology. The AI (of course) want to swap technologies that are civ dependent, but that is not a problem.

However ...

... towards the end of the game (as Om) I was offered the choice of researching Rincewind - which I accepted of course. When I had finished the research, I didn't actually get the wizzard, but I don't think the choice should have been offered to me.

(On the subject of airlifts on the menu - just put it down to another senior moment )

RJM at Sleeper's

PS: is it still possible for the AI to "lose" it's special defensive unit? In my battle to capture Lancre I didn't notice it - or maybe its in another Ramtop city.

PPS: There doesn't seem to be a game message when you destroy Dunmanifestin (or the pyramid east of Jelly Belly). I know you're very short of space, but if you can manage to squeeze something somewhere, I think it would be useful.

[Cyrion]

Re: Tech tree problem?

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
... towards the end of the game (as Om) I was offered the choice of researching Rincewind - which I accepted of course. When I had finished the research, I didn't actually get the wizzard, but I don't think the choice should have been offered to me.

Of course you didn't get him! He belongs to A-M!

And there is no way to stop a civ from trading a researchable tech, sorry!

They only way AROUND it would be to use an extra tech for each National Hero, and use a few "thingummeys" and "whatchamacallit" in the event file! As I don't have spare techs, and the file is nearly full, I won't do it...

Anyway, if you had read the Rincewind tech description, it should say in the end that it's only useful for A-M...

PS: is it still possible for the AI to "lose" it's special defensive unit? In my battle to capture Lancre I didn't notice it - or maybe its in another Ramtop city.

It shouldn't be possible...

And you would have noticed it if it were still there! And it is in Lancre! That's weird...

PPS: There doesn't seem to be a game message when you destroy Dunmanifestin (or the pyramid east of Jelly Belly). I know you're very short of space, but if you can manage to squeeze something somewhere, I think it would be useful.

No, there isn't yet, I'll see if I can squeeze something in... Not sure, though!