Red Storm - The Cold War Gets Hot (scenario development)

[bc1871]

I'm assuming that your going to make the NATO units more versitile/skilled to make up for the fact that the USSR and the Warsaw Pact can throw more conscripts than God into the fight!

[Harry Tuttle]

I like the idea, this scenario should be fun, especially for NATO as the Soviets might have an initial advantage at the start of a conventional war. As for additional units, what about the B1B Lancer for NATO? The first model was delivered June 1985. I also see you have what looks like an Apache helicopter. Why not include the SuperCobra as well, as it was its operational predecessor?

[GhostOfDisco]

This looks like a riot! Was wanting to do a Modern scenario for ages...
But decided to do a Napoleonic one instead...(that's my current project)

I have some pretty modern cities you might want to use, Ghost...If you
need such things let me know...Modern stuff is easier to do that Turkish,
so I won't keep you waiting around, old chap!

You're got some new cities? Great! I'd love to see them!

I was going to have each turn be one month, with the scenario lasting several years. I hope that's not too long...

Hmm, I like the idea of 2 main units per division, plus auxiliary units, although that might result in about 4 units per division each (2 main ground units, plus attached artillery and helicopter units). I think I had about 5 units per division in 2013: A Union Divided, and that resulted in unit overkill (at least some people thought so). I know I was thinking for air units, 1 unit = 1 squadron would be good. I guess I'll go download RotD and see how you did it.

Here's one idea I've had for the scenario: Aerial refueling. I'd have air refueler units with in the "3" category and the ability to "carry" aircraft, which should enable them to refuel aircraft (i.e. let aircraft end their turn (without "running out of fuel" by "landing" on them). Can this be done?

[bc1871]

The inclusion of Military Police/Service Police/Provosts or some form of "Security Forces" unit might be a good idea, so that the player would not have to use his combat arms units to garrison NATO/captured cities.

[GhostOfDisco]

True, and I can use the WarPac's various "internal police" units for that role on their side of the Curtain.

[EZRhino]

I was going to have each turn be one month, with the scenario lasting several years. I hope that's not too long...

We're talking about high-tempo mechanized maneuver warfare similar to the Persian Gulf War but on a much larger scale. War planers from both NATO and the Soviet Union expected a war to be decisive within three weeks (in fact both sides expected total operational losses of over 30% within the first 3-5 days!). After that, it was thought either logistics will have been exhausted or the war would've gone nuclear

IMO you might want to consider using fewer units per division purely for playability reasons. My understanding is that NATO and European based US forces had about 30 divisions in 1985 and the Soviet Union+Warsaw Pact collectively had over 90 divisions (in Europe only, that is, not including divisions involved in the Afghanistan war or defending the border with China). 90X4=360units, that almost twice as many units as you get in Red Front. It might be bit of a chore.

[EZRhino]

Does anyone know what kind of colorful/unique Cold-War era units I could include here?

US Army 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment "Black Horse". On the front lines at the Fulda gap

[McMonkey]

I agree with bc1871 about the Internal Security/Police units for garrisons rear area cities (like in First Strike). This would also make it easier to calculate the sizes of the opposing military forces.

I think EZRhino is right about the time frame too. Turns should be measured in days rather than weeks or months. This would allow you to accurately calculate and represent unit movement.

[GhostOfDisco]

We're talking about high-tempo mechanized maneuver warfare similar to the Persian Gulf War but on a much larger scale. War planers from both NATO and the Soviet Union expected a war to be decisive within three weeks (in fact both sides expected total operational losses of over 30% within the first 3-5 days!). After that, it was thought either logistics will have been exhausted or the war would've gone nuclear

Well, at the outbreak of World War I all sides thought the conflict would be resolved in a matter of weeks, and in World War II Hitler thought his invasion of Russia would be finished before the winter of 1941. We all know how those plans worked out.

Also, I'd like the player to be able to eventually build reinforcements and the like, and you can't exactly whip up an armored regiment in a matter of days (I always found it funny you could build M-48 and -60 units in rmsharpe's excellent "Malta" scenario, even though each turn was a day.)

Thirdly, it seems such a scenario would waste the large map I'm using, that a map such as the one used in Frederick the Great would be more appropriate for such a situation. Plus, the scope of the game isn't just confined to the battle for Germany - I'd like to allow the WarPac player the space and time to go beyond the Rhine to France and beyond, conquering Europe and even America in the name of Marx, and conversely let the NATO player try to drive on Moscow to liberate all of Europe from the scourge of Communism.

So, I'm thinking 1 turn=1 week or so might be a possibility, though I have many reservations about mere days...

IMO you might want to consider using fewer units per division purely for playability reasons. My understanding is that NATO and European based US forces had about 30 divisions in 1985 and the Soviet Union+Warsaw Pact collectively had over 90 divisions (in Europe only, that is, not including divisions involved in the Afghanistan war or defending the border with China). 90X4=360units, that almost twice as many units as you get in Red Front. It might be bit of a chore.

I guess I'll have to figure something out...

[bc1871]

The Centurion Tank should probably be removed from the NATO Armored Section, since by the 1980's, if memory serves me, they were no longer being operated.

[Harry Tuttle]

"I'd like to allow the WarPac player the space and time to go beyond the Rhine to France and beyond, conquering Europe and even America in the name of Marx, and conversely let the NATO player try to drive on Moscow to liberate all of Europe from the scourge of Communism."

In that case I think nukes should be included. I doubt France or Britain would allow their countries to be overrun without resorting to nukes. Much less the US. If anything the nuke units could be given by events once a line is crossed.

[bc1871]

Also, are you going to be using trade caravans to simulate supply and logistics?

[Case]

That sounds like a good idea. I'm wondering Does anyone know what kind of colorful/unique Cold-War era units I could include here?

US armored cavalry regiments (which had a very important screening/speed bump role along the German border), NATO reservists (who seem to have had a key rear area security role), Warsaw Pact reserve units using older equipment, Soviet and Polish marines (who would have operated along the Baltic coast), etc.

I note that the units file is missing any French aircraft; these would have been much more important than F-14s and F/A-18s (the USN's carriers would have operated in the Mediterranean and against North Cape, and probably not have ventured into the North Sea).

[GhostOfDisco]

Well, I do need to get some slots for the French Mirages (should I just have one Mirage unit, or several?) as well as the Super Entendard.

Trade caravan to simulate logistics? I might.

[Case]

Well, I do need to get some slots for the French Mirages (should I just have one Mirage unit, or several?) as well as the Super Entendard.

I don't think that the Super Entendard would be worthwhile - only small numbers of them were built to operate off the two French aircraft carriers. I think that the F-117A entered service in the late 1980s rather than the mid-80s, so it could be cut as well. I'd suggest using either the Mirage III or Mirage V and the very different Mirage 2000.