Balkan Breakup Scenario - Creation Thread

[McMonkey]

As far as I know ToT still suffers from the Knight/Musketeer problem but I might be wrong. With regards to the time span, its your scenario, make it as long or as short as you like. I am just playing devils advocate as I am also inclined to go for the maximum possible in every parameter. It is worth considering movement rates alongside the game length / time per turn. You don't want a situation where it takes a mechanized unit a hundred years to drive across the country or a situation where to have accurate movement for time rates and units have extremely high movement factors (for example if a unit could move 50 squares along roads). You need to find a good compromise between accuracy and gameplay here!

[Hans99]

Movement rates i tested in my german gigamaps, and i went for a road mutiplier of 3, but gave the tanks a movement rate of ca. 5 and Infantry ca. 2 . I will see how this fits with the timeline in this Scenario, but think this will fit fairly well. One option could be to replace airport with train station as to allow fast train transport.

Tomorrow i will be back at job, so the next time i will be a little bit reduced concerning my ability to scenario design, but don't worry, this isn't the only long term rpoject here on Apolyton.

[curtsibling]

I recently tested the knight/musketeer bug in my current scenario, and noticed no trouble.

But as extra insurance I would make both slots an air or barb unit, or if they must be used,
have the units with the 'air superiority' role, which cancels out the bug on the AI build list.

[techumseh]

But the biggest problem is to show the breakup of the state. I think this can be done by cleverly using the EVENTS and paradropping units ? in some way or is there a possibility to change city owners without units ?

If you can find a place to park some settler units where they can't be attacked (and can't move, eg. on an ocean square), it is a good way to "create" a new civ. Using events, create the new units next to cities you want to take over. Pay attention to the order in which the civs move so that event-created units aren't wiped out before they can capture the cities they're supposed to. Take a look at "Red October" for an example of this.

[McMonkey]

I will make a start on the map at work today providing things are quiet. Will begin with the tedious job of "drawing" the grid on the map editor to match the one I have on the paper map. You will need to let me know which terrain types you want to use. I guess there is no use for deserts and glaciers in Yugoslavia so you could use these slots for other things. Here are some ideas:

Suburbs/Villages
Useful for big cities like Belgrade and Sarajevo, especially on such a large map. I could use a suburb terrain to mark city locations and you could add the suburbs as you see fit when I hand over the map.

Defenses/Trenches/Minefields
See Techumseh's Market Garden scenario for a smart way to represent minefields. Also bridges etc...

Resource squares (Trade, Food or Shields)
I am using this method in my latest scenario to guarantee that cities have the resources to match their size and importance. This way you are less reliant on the randomly placed special resources and you won't get tiny villages thriving while major cities struggle.

Railbed
Not sure if there is a need for railroads in this scenario, but if there is you will need to plan for them from the start. See Techumseh's Red October scenario if you need an example.

It will be a while before I begin to add these type of terrains so you have time to think it through. To begin with I will be drawing the coastlines and plotting city locations.

[McMonkey]

Here is the progress on the map so far. I still won't jink it by estimating the completion date, but it is going well so far. The white box in the top picture shows the standard map zoom to give you a rough idea of scale. The bottom zoomed out picture shows where I have marked all the major towns and cities. The grid squares are 8x8 and the whole map works out to about 28,000sq, plenty big enough I will make the Danube and other major rivers inpassable oceans apart from major road and rail crossings. If you want any other crossing points you can always add them later.

[Hans99]

I am really impressed

Cheers to this great map. I love the coastline...

I am working in munich at the moment, my colleagues at moment are a bosnian, married with a serb woman and a slovenian with a croatian girl. Gonna try to catch some stories 'bout the war from them.

More to come soon, got some time till monday, 'cause our construction material somehow, disappeared... ( Polish Case ) including truck driver ?!

Cheers for today my Scenario League Compadres

[Hans99]

@ McMonkey

As for map terrain, just go forth with grassland, mountains, hills, forest and rivers, i will add special terrain over the progress.


I am at the moment making a resource chart. The big chrome ressources in Kosovo might be of some interest ( As it were for the USA ).

Also i am looking for some scenario creation info for Test of Time. Were there some other ressources beside the scenario league design tips ?

[McMonkey]

Will do. Added most of the (ocean) rivers the other day. Its all starting to come together as I had hoped.

[Hans99]

Update on Units so far...

I am still busy with the TERRAIN1.BMP

There will be semi seperate tech trees for the warrying parties,
so some techs will be available for everyone.

Musketeer and knight slot problem have been solved now.

Units, that are available for all will include masks as seen in curt's EURASIAN WARS scenario. Just making my
terrain and my city graphics before i will come to the masks.



Engineers
In the settler slot,
to prevent a too over active AI development over the scenario

National Infantry and Hvy. Infantry
For every party of the war.
The standard infantry for defense, the heavy infantry for attack. Movement will be 1,
roadmultiplier 4-5 gonna test it out.
Maybe fractal movement will be the solution for some things, as showing more combat ready troops.
It will be difficult to use Srpska, Krajina and Bosnian Croat units, because i want them to be produced only in specific cities, maybe hex editing will come in handy here, i don't know...


Aircraft Carrier
Don't know if i should include these, is the AI still tricky with loading these in TOT ?
As in the beginning only the NATO forces, which are not for play, will have and eventually use them.

Mujaheddin
We all know 'em. If you play Bosnia and want to go towards a fundamental muslim development
you can get the chance via techtree (Fundamentalism )

Militas
Partisan makeover

Armed Police
Standard defensive unit for most young states in the beginning.

B-52 Bomber
Makes big Holes

NATO Airborne Inf.
Prepare for some surprises

Mines
Also do not know if i should include these. Paradrop ability is no good choice,
and the AI cannot use them effectively, as they cannot move. I only sense some use of them with Events.
Maybe i should let them out completly ?

SU-100
Mobile artillery at the beginning of the war

2S1
Mobile artillery

152mm Gun
Towed artillery

122mm Gun
standard artillery, altough 76mm guns and rockets were also widely used

BM-21
Rocket artillery

Mercenaries
Expensive but effective and don't need any research

Paratroops
Expensive but useful

Special Forces
Some special abilities, will be nice for making the enemy angry

Chetniks
Bearded pro serbian milita

Arkan's Tigers
Serbian militia hools

HOS
Croatian right wing movement troops, very effective in the beginning

Freight
No landing boat, just a freighter

Tornado
NATO Bomber

F-15
NATO Fighter

Apache
They might be annoying for the serb troops

Cruiser, Destroyer, Frigate
available for all parties

Submarine
Also do not know if i should include these, as there was no big sub war in the conflict.
And i do not have the intention for a
great Serb vs. NATO sea warfare ( Would be different if we would have more than 7 Civ's and even more units ).
So i think i sould drop em ?

West Bosnian Infantry
Pro Serb bosnian troops of an independent area under leader Fikret Abdic

Cruise Missile
We all love and hate em

NATO Infantry
Will come after you if you are greedy

Diplomat Slot
Do not know how to use this slot, first thought as recon like in the HERBSTNEBEL Scen ?

Mafia
Local mafia and crime structures were an important force in the war,
they will be depicted by some special spy abilities.

Leo I
In the caravan slot, Maybe i will use the caravan slot and move the Leo I, is there anything special about the caravan slot ?

Trade Truck
They might be more powerful than you think, cause money is big time here

SAM Tank
NATO SP-SAM

M-109
NATO Artillery

MARS
NATO Rocket Artillery

UN Troops
Expect them to be always annoying

M-84A
Yugoslavian tank, fairly powerful. In the beginning just available for the serbs, yugoslav national army.

T-55AM
Outdated tank, but still effective, Croats get them early.

T-34/85
Vintage WW II Tank, but in the hands of experienced troops still effective.

M-80A
IFV of Yugoslavia

BTR-60
APC of Yugoslavia

Bradley
NATO IFV

M-18 & M-36
Vintage WW II tank hunters, but still many were in use. I think i should fuse them into one unit,
as there were no big untis of these tanks but many small groups of them in infantry units.

M-90 Vihor
M-84 Update, late after 1995

SA-9
Yugoslav SP-SAM

Praga
SP AA Gun truck, but also "very" effective in the ground support role with its twin 30mm Cannons.

Refugees
Do not know how to use them exactly ? Flags ???

BRDM-2
Yugoslav recon vehilce

Barracks
Barracks for the battle of the barracks. Joker field, also used for logs in the log revolution and other things

Immortals, 5th Korps
Stoud Bosnian Bihac defenders, strong brigades

Muslims
Bosnian supporters, have to see how well they fit with the mujaheddin concept ?

Tiger Brig. Infantry & Tank
Croatian Elite Brigade, use them careful, for as they grow in size with time.

Gazelle
Yugoslav attack helicopter

Galeb
Light assault aircraft

Orao
Light assault aircraft

MiG-21
Medium fighter

MiG-29
Modern fighter, only available for serbia, altough the croatians and bosnians will get the chance to grab some of 'em

Bunker
Border, real bunkers, city fortresses...

M1A1
NATO Tank

F-16
NATO Fighter, also do not know if i should include these, as i think the f-15 fits good for most of the NATO airforce.

Barbarian General
Generals also give good bounty


So far for today, i can't wait to see the map

[McMonkey]

Haven't really had the chance to do any work on the map for the past few weeks due to working a very early shift and being very tired in the evenings. This has come to an end now so I should be able to make some progress. I can send you what I have so far to help you make plans etc...

[Hans99]

Yeah, send what you got. Will be really helpful

[McMonkey]

Here is the map as it is now. I am working my way through box by box (top left - right and so on) until I have added all the mountains, forests, minor rivers and lowland and also to blur out the grid. When I am finished I will also include a save game with all the towns and cities on it. It might take a while to finish the terrain as it is a bit tedious and I have to be in the right frame of mind. If you need it quickly please let me know and I will try and up the tempo

[Hans99]

Great , Thanks, this will help a lot for crude testing.

And don't hurry, "festina lente" as the romans would say. I were on holiday the last 2 Weeks but now work's getting started again, so i won't have a great time for my beloved Civ 2.

[GhostOfDisco]

Well, looking at the unit pic I noticed two things: 1) the UN vehicle looks like a Warrior IFV and 2) the unit flags needed some work. So I did a little work and here's a revised UN unit pic, plus unit flags/logos, free of charge! (Not that I'd ever demand money for these kinds of services, unless Civ V goes back to bitmaps and Sid Meier wants me to help :P )

Sorry I didn't include the West Bosnian logo here, but it looks like it's basically the Bosnian flag with a gold boundary, so it shouldn't be hard to make...