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Dainichi Sekai Taisen version 3

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  • #46
    From the DST v.3 Readme
    The U.S. is now no longer unassailable. All the U.S. Army Reserve units in Hawaii and stateside will disband once MacArthur abandons the Philippines - because events will now render the Army Reserve unit obsolete, causing the AI to disband them. Using the same mechanism, Chungking will now be protected until Burma is taken.

    During this campaign, you should strike early to wrest control of Peking and Tientsin from Chinese factions not under the direct control of the Nationalists. Thereafter, you will need to instigate an incident by inducing the Chinese to attack you first, otherwise the Allied attitude towards you will sour immediately leading to a 'sneak attack' on you before you are fully mobilized. The best way to do this is to mass your troops outside major Chinese cites without attacking.

    Once open hostilities begin, quickly capture the port of Shanghai and conduct your main attack along the Shanghai - Nanking - Chungking Axis before turning south towards IndoChina. Forces opposing your thrust will not be unified and using only antiquated equipment and tactics. While it may not be easy to gain new territory as the campaign drags on, it should be relatively easy to hold on to whatever areas you have occupied.


    Having read the Readme VERY carefully before playing, I had to change the approach I took in the previous version of DST. As a consequence of seeing too many questionable suggestions in other Readme files, I ignored the suggestions not to sneak attack the Chinese and to attack along Shanghai - Nanking - Chungking axis. I have learned to be highly sceptical of Readmes from playing excellent scens such as Harlan Thompson's WWII PACIFIC where the scen is relatively easy if one does not use ANY of the "good" tactics/strategies that the author suggests.

    In DST v.3 the Shanghai - Nanking - Chungking axis is out of the question because it may well open the whole miserable Burma Road can of worms. Also, I was interested in the following entries in McMonkey's excellent post about the time line for his game:

    FEBRUARY 1943 ................ Mandalay captured and Burma road closed.

    MAY 1945 ..................Chungking invested by 15 plus artillery pieces.

    JUNE 1945 Chungking captured after massive artillery bombardment.


    Although I had no idea of the actual number of Arty he needed to eliminate the Chungking garrison, it started me wondering if making units obsolete works quite as well as suggested by the DST v.3 readme.


    In order to see what actually happens to Army Reserve units, I gave the "I shall return" tech to both the Chinese and the US and then fast forwarded through 20 turns, each turn recording the number of Army Reserves for each civ.

    After 20 turns, the US still had 2 of the 10 they started with and the Chinese still had their single unit. I suspect that neither civ can be destroyed during a game because making Army Reserves obsolete does not remove them from the game quickly enough.


    Consequently, I am heartbroken because, unlike in the previous version of DST, the following sequence is no longer possible:
    The Great Wall wonder is in Chungking.
    The "China" tech makes the wonder obsolete.
    Only the Chinese have this tech.
    If the Chinese civ is destroyed, nobody has the "China" tech.
    If Chungking is taken by the Japanese, they will have the Great Wall.
    The wonder will be active once more.

    Three Banzais for the Emperor!!!


    P.S. In Aug '37, Imperial forces are massed outside Chengtu. Not a bad spot to be if an attack on Nanking is contemplated. However, any subsequent operations will depend on how the Army Reserves problem is resolved.
    Last edited by AGRICOLA; June 8, 2009, 03:35.
    Excerpts from the Manual of the Civilization Fanatic :

    Money can buy happiness, just raise the luxury rate to 50%.
    Money is not the root of all evil, it is the root of great empires.

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    • #47
      I attacked Chungking in my early campaign in China but found that my Artillery made no headway against the Army Reserve. At the time I needed to use my resources to build up for the attack on the US and British so I focused there and cordoned off Chungking. By the end of the game I could spare more resources for China (which was growing in strength) and I built 30+ artillery units to take on the Army Reserve in Chungking. When I began my attack I found it was no longer there and my buildup of strength was a case of massive overkill

      I'm not sure why this happened. I'm not one to analyze the game mechanics too deeply. I do try and establish what the goals are and build a strategy to get me to them but that's about it. For me, knowing where the AI's Achilles heal is would take away some of the enjoyment. I would prefer to blunder through and learn from my mistakes
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      • #48
        Originally posted by McMonkey View Post
        I attacked Chungking in my early campaign in China but found that my Artillery made no headway against the Army Reserve. At the time I needed to use my resources to build up for the attack on the US and British so I focused there and cordoned off Chungking. By the end of the game I could spare more resources for China (which was growing in strength) and I built 30+ artillery units to take on the Army Reserve in Chungking. When I began my attack I found it was no longer there and my buildup of strength was a case of massive overkill

        I'm not sure why this happened. I'm not one to analyze the game mechanics too deeply. I do try and establish what the goals are and build a strategy to get me to them but that's about it. For me, knowing where the AI's Achilles heal is would take away some of the enjoyment. I would prefer to blunder through and learn from my mistakes
        .
        As explained by Mr. Agricola in great detail, Chungking's Army Reserve unit is made obsolete when you take Burma and the AI disbanded it (translate as no more Allied supplies via Yunnan so Chinese resistance crumbles)

        As Hannibal said... I love it when a plan comes together.
        .
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        • #49
          @kobayashi
          Yes, but how long does it take to disband? I'm guessing that it is an indeterminate number of turns.


          @McMonkey
          A couple tests I ran showed that it takes 40-45 vet Arty to kill an Army Reserve.

          In his Lord of the One Ring, kobi made good use of making units obsolete to get rid of them. I have no idea why it does not seem to work equally well in this scen. Too bad.

          When playtesting, I try unorthodox lines of play and dig into the mechanics of the game in order to see if there are any hidden problems. Reading your post is what triggered my test of how quickly Army Reserve units are disbanded after they become obsolete.

          The sequence that I am "heartbroken" about is the first case that I have encountered of how an expired wonder can actually become unexpired. I spotted it when I was testing the previous version of DST and was very interested to see if it would work in the latest version.

          BTW, if you have the saves from the scen, you should be able to determine how many turns it took the Army Reserve units to be disbanded in both China and the US.
          Excerpts from the Manual of the Civilization Fanatic :

          Money can buy happiness, just raise the luxury rate to 50%.
          Money is not the root of all evil, it is the root of great empires.

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          • #50
            Unfortunately I always have the autosave turned off and I tend to just have one save (in this instance named RISING SUN) which I overwrite each turn as I go along. Saves me from the temptation to go back a few months if things don't turn out how I would like them
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