The Eurasian Wars!

[AGRICOLA]

I tried the UN in London bit and it works satisfactorily. However, the unhappiness problems of democratic governments completely distort the game. Anything but the shortest amphib invasions causes massive unhappiness. A long sea voyage, like that of the Siberian Corps from Murmansk to the Far East in my EAW-Germany game, is practically impossible. During the first turn I'm already having trouble withdrawing high value naval units to safer waters if several of them are homed to the same city. The future use of aircraft carriers is similarly limited by the unhappiness that the ship and the planes produce when at sea.

Playing the Allies as a democracy is like having one hand tied behind one's back . . . . just a long sequence of building fortresses within 3 squares of cities and constantly checking the happiness in cities. I don't see any alternative except to change the Allied government to Communism despite the decrease in the science rate.

[AGRICOLA]

Encountered something in my game (Allies, Deity, Feb 1942) that does not seem to make sense. The Germans got the Partisan tech in July '41 and the Japanese in Nov '41. The Russians don't have it yet, despite the Germans hammering at the gates of Moscow and Stalingrad.

Where would the Germans find volunteers among the French, the Poles and other subjugated peoples to fight as partisans for them? The same question applies to the Japanese in China and most of SE Asia. Or, for that matter, would the Western Allies actually find volunteers anywhere but in Britain if they obtained the tech?

I wonder if Partisan Warfare should be an unreachable tech that is given to the Chinese at the beginning of the scen and to the Russians as soon as Barbarossa starts?


There are no other problems with my game. Managed to captured Chengdu in April '41. That was anything but historical, but it was by far the best thing that the Allies could do with their limited forces. The capture would have been delayed if the Chinese had had Partisans. Then took all other Chinese cities in central China before the Japanese attack in Dec '41. Managed to hold Hong Kong, Seri Begawan, Talang and Mandalay against the Japanese onslaught. All other SE Asian cities had been abandoned.

Elsewhere, the situation remains as at the start of the scen . . . . . El Alamein and Athens are well garrisoned and Britain is getting industry and RR's while the last key techs are being researched.


Playing the Allies is an interesting change because they are so widely spread out and communications are extremely difficult and slow.

[GhostOfDisco]

Encountered something in my game (Allies, Deity, Feb 1942) that does not seem to make sense. The Germans got the Partisan tech in July '41 and the Japanese in Nov '41. The Russians don't have it yet, despite the Germans hammering at the gates of Moscow and Stalingrad.

Where would the Germans find volunteers among the French, the Poles and other subjugated peoples to fight as partisans for them? The same question applies to the Japanese in China and most of SE Asia. Or, for that matter, would the Western Allies actually find volunteers anywhere but in Britain if they obtained the tech?

Well, I'd say they could find a lot of partisans in occupied places like France and Poland if the Germans retook said places. Sort of a "never again" thing - they being liberated by the Allies, would not want to submit to Nazi rule again, and thus would get partisans if the Germans retook those cities.

[AGRICOLA]

I think that you may have missed my point. The way things are, with the Germans having the Partisan tech, German Partisans appear if the Allies capture a French city from the Germans. The same thing happens if the Allies take a Chinese city from the Japanese. In either case, I can't see where the German or Japanese Partisans would come from.

[GhostOfDisco]

I think that you may have missed my point. The way things are, with the Germans having the Partisan tech, German Partisans appear if the Allies capture a French city from the Germans.

Well, if you use CivCity to make the French cities founded by the Allies, then pro-Vichy partisans will not emerge to fight the Anglo-American advance.

The Japanese partisans fighting in China, on the other hand...

[curtsibling]

Well, I started playing as the Allies, and while I was able to liberate France and (most of) Italy (save Trieste)m I could not break out into Germany- I could take Brussels (and one time Cologne), but the Germans than took me back and at times threatened Paris - I decided to play as the Japanese.

Diverting from history, I decided to "strike north" and attack Russia. Vladvistok fell after a good amount of coastal bombardment (including the Yamato) and I soon initiated a blitzkrieg tactic where my small amount of armor and large amount of planes played a major role (the Val dive bomber must be noted for playing a pivotal role in my strategy.) So far, I'm at Dec 1941 and I've made it as far as Novosibirsk. Just like the historical blitzkrieg, the infantry is having a hard time catching up with the armor and aerial spearheads, but since there really isn't much resistance (the Chinese have attacked a little, and Stalin has sent one unit of T-34s, a few fighters and exactly two bombers, I think) it's not that big a setback.

I am wondering; you mentioned in an earlier post that you were still working on the final version of Ostfront. Is that so and if so, when will it come out? I am eager to try the next version of that scenario (hopefully there I'll do better as the Allies on the Western Front!)

And a gift of sorts, here's a Chinese P-40 I modified. I caught an episode of "Dogfights" involving the Flying Tigers and I thought "Curt's Chinese P-40s don't have the right camo scheme." Well, the one in the current game might not be inaccurate, but still, I know they used this type of camouflage:

Cheers, Ghost!

That Warhawk is being added!

[curtsibling]

@Ciaran

I’ve played a bit of the first turn of EA WARS – Allies and taken an in-depth look at Allied possibilities. This included:

Freed up a significant number of shields in Home Island cities.
Decided which cities are indefensible and began appropriate actions.
Maximized the Science rate.
Figured out the composition of an effective Air Force that avoids extra unhappiness.

Decided on initial Allied action.
Was thwarted by $@#*&%?/ peacenik Senate.

Looked into possibility of capturing the UN in Madrid.
Was thwarted by $@#*&%?/ peacenik Senate.

Looked into getting Russia or China to attack Neutrals.
Was thwarted by $@#*&%?/ peacenik leaders who claimed “No contact”

Screamed $@#*&%?/.


What do you say to

A. Moving the UN wonder to London?

OR

B. Making War Democracy (Communism) the Allied form of government?


In order to avoid making the scen much easier, I'm moving the UN to London. In desperate times even peacenik democracies must be able to take desperate actions for self-preservation.


P.S. The Rules_Allied files is labelled "GERMAN RULES" at the top of the file.

Fixed that blooper in the Allied rules...

I do realise now that when playing as the Allies, invading Spain might be a viable tactic - I think
your proposal to move the UN to London is a good idea...My only concern is that it might lead to
a full-on dogpile by all the bullying AI nations...The great wall wonder is in Sweden, and it
prevents the hapless 'Newtrals' being complely smooshed by everyone...!

But I guess there are few good guys in this scenario anyhoo!

The trick is what to call this new wonder in already wonder-heavy London?

Does 'Allied High-Command' seem a good choice?

[curtsibling]

I tried the UN in London bit and it works satisfactorily. However, the unhappiness problems of democratic governments completely distort the game. Anything but the shortest amphib invasions causes massive unhappiness. A long sea voyage, like that of the Siberian Corps from Murmansk to the Far East in my EAW-Germany game, is practically impossible. During the first turn I'm already having trouble withdrawing high value naval units to safer waters if several of them are homed to the same city. The future use of aircraft carriers is similarly limited by the unhappiness that the ship and the planes produce when at sea.

Playing the Allies as a democracy is like having one hand tied behind one's back . . . . just a long sequence of building fortresses within 3 squares of cities and constantly checking the happiness in cities. I don't see any alternative except to change the Allied government to Communism despite the decrease in the science rate.

The main problem is that if I change the Democracy government for the Allies,
it means some other CIV loses it's unique government...And then all the knock
on changes that have to happen in that case...

It take it the Woman's Suffering (Houses of Parliament) has not enough effect?
Would a massive overdose of happiness improvements be any use here?

[curtsibling]

Encountered something in my game (Allies, Deity, Feb 1942) that does not seem to make sense. The Germans got the Partisan tech in July '41 and the Japanese in Nov '41. The Russians don't have it yet, despite the Germans hammering at the gates of Moscow and Stalingrad.

Where would the Germans find volunteers among the French, the Poles and other subjugated peoples to fight as partisans for them? The same question applies to the Japanese in China and most of SE Asia. Or, for that matter, would the Western Allies actually find volunteers anywhere but in Britain if they obtained the tech?

I wonder if Partisan Warfare should be an unreachable tech that is given to the Chinese at the beginning of the scen and to the Russians as soon as Barbarossa starts?

Could be an option!
I made partisan tech available to all, and it seems the Axis wanted it badly!
I can add an event that makes it be awarded automatically to China and
the Soviets.

There are no other problems with my game. Managed to captured Chengdu in April '41. That was anything but historical, but it was by far the best thing that the Allies could do with their limited forces. The capture would have been delayed if the Chinese had had Partisans. Then took all other Chinese cities in central China before the Japanese attack in Dec '41. Managed to hold Hong Kong, Seri Begawan, Talang and Mandalay against the Japanese onslaught. All other SE Asian cities had been abandoned.

Elsewhere, the situation remains as at the start of the scen . . . . . El Alamein and Athens are well garrisoned and Britain is getting industry and RR's while the last key techs are being researched.


Playing the Allies is an interesting change because they are so widely spread out and communications are extremely difficult and slow.

I wanted the Allies to be an exercise in getting the act together...The Axis
start out ready for a good war, while the Allies have to develop themselves.
But your concerns about the government and senate make me realise some
changes are in order here!

I am working through the new events for each nation, and adding the new
Japanese and Chinese events too, so I hope to get this thing going at the
weekend, but it is becoming a vast task indeed!

Fear not, I will win though!

[curtsibling]

Just wondering if a certain event will work...
I have the alternate Stalingrad event done, but I have a concern...

The Germans are given tech=97, and the Soviets are given tech=96. The Germans can
research the logistic-based 'Stalingrad Breakout' tech, or try and sieze tactical
cities to end the battle. When the city capturing oute is taken I want these techs
(96/97) taken from both civs. I made the events below to reflect this...

BUT!

If the first event triggers, will the following event trigger properly after it?
I am worried that these combined '@AND' events will only fire off once...

(First event, removes Soviet unit spawn tech...)

@IF
RECEIVEDTECHNOLOGY
technology=97
receiver=German Reich
@AND
CITYTAKEN
city=Kuibishev
attacker=German Reich
defender=Soviet Union
@THEN
JUSTONCE
TEXT
^
^^ The Soviet forward command headquarters is seized!
^
ENDTEXT
TakeTechnology
whom=Soviet Union
technology=96
@ENDIF

(Following event, removes German Stalingrad research tech...)

@IF
RECEIVEDTECHNOLOGY
technology=97
receiver=German Reich
@AND
CITYTAKEN
city=Kuibishev
attacker=German Reich
defender=Soviet Union
@THEN
JUSTONCE
TakeTechnology
whom=German Reich
technology=97
@ENDIF


Any opinions on this?

[AGRICOLA]

DAMMIT, IT'S THE BLASTED UNITS LIMIT AGAIN!

The game is in July, 1942; the Japanese are about finished in China and Manchuria but still hold what they conquered in SE Asia; North Africa is quiet with only ocasional attacks by Italian aircraft ; the Allies just landed in Normandy and took France except for a couple of Italian-held cities. The Germans have captured both Stalingrad (June) and Moscow (July) but Leningrad is still holding.

It is just as well that I just ran a total units check at the end of the Allied July turn. I was surprised that there are only 146 free slots. A quick check of events provided the explanation.

As soon as Barbarossa starts (June 1941), the Germans spawn 72 units/turn and the Soviets 36 units/turn for a total of 108 units/turn. Even without the additional 15 units/turn are spawned after the Germans capture Stalingrad, it doesn't take long to fill the units table. The Germans and Russians are simply not slaughtering each other fast enough (isn't that a gruesome way of putting it ). Maybe the Barbarossa tech should be taken away from both combatants in early 1942 or, alternately, fewer units spawned by the tech.


I've been playing the scen with the Allies having a Communist government. That has turned out to be too easy. For what it's worth, my guesstimate from a couple of tests is that Monarchy may strike the right balance between overly generous Communism and the horrors of Democracy in this scen. There will still be ongoing problems with unhappiness and the science rate will decrease from a tech/2 turns to a tech/3 turns. The tech rate is critical because with Communism, the Allies are able to build Pershing tanks, Hellcat assault guns, P-51's, B-17's and Commandos by the end of 1942. That is definitely too much of a good thing.


I'll try to reply to your questions once I've had a chance to give them some thought.

[curtsibling]

No problems, Acricola!

I will scale back that event for the Germans - It is really only needed for the first few
turns of Barbarossa anyway...I'll look into the monarchy idea too - It is the most viable
of the government choices I would say...

[curtsibling]

Changed the Allies to monarchy government, and found they had a mega deficit running...
But no matter! I will change the Allied Events to include a US 'lend lease payment' each
turn (a message will flag up once) that pays 1000 gold...

I'll put in a lesser gold event for the AI Allies in other events...

[curtsibling]

I guess changing the Allied government also nulls the need to move the UN wonder too!

[AGRICOLA]

I apologize for swinging back and forth like a pendulum on Allied government. This time I'm doing a major backtrack, based on playing some turns of Monarchy, checking several of my operational summaries from kobayashi's Warlords of China and doing some thinking on the more esoteric ways of overcoming problems with playing a democracy in wartime. I had problems in WOC where most civs are monarchies.


MONARCHY
This form of government is designed for small civs. When civs have numerous cities, it becomes unstable in that a member of a city's population can become unhappy from one turn to the next. The capture of an enemy city always causes one or two citizens to riot but citizens can also become unhappy for no reason whatsoever.

Constant watchfulness is needed and one must expect to make ongoing adjustments to factors that affect city happiness. Expect a gradual decrease in overall city productivity as more workers need to be changed to Elvises.


DEMOCRACY
Democracy is challenging but definitely playable under certain circumstances:

1. IF the Allies have the UN wonder.
2. IF city slots are available or can be created.
3. IF one knows how to create cities that cannot suffer from unhappiness under any circumstances, no matter how many and what type of units they support.
4. IF the Allies have a happiness wonder such as Hanging Gardens, Bach’s Cathedral or Cure for Cancer.
5. IF the Allies can build Courthouses.
6. IF players are aware of the problems with playing a modern democracy at war.

If the above conditions are met, one can play a fairly normal game and have good, balanced armed forces that do not cause riots in the cities when they go in the field.

Without no-unhappiness cities, one can overcome the unhappiness caused by ground units away from cities by moving them between cities and fortresses within 3 squares of one's cities; aircraft would have to be mainly types that cause no unhappiness when they are in cities, etc. etc. etc. It will be a somewhat constrained game.

Having just eaten some very stringy crow and debunked my own claim that democracy is unplayable, I would suggest that you install the government that make the most sense to you.


Anyway, I'm going to try democracy (UN in London) and see what happens. As my key moves for the first turn, Aberdeen will be starved (no more haggis or fiery liquids for the lads in kilts . . . . . . only thistle salad) and Tobruk (the holy grail of Churchill's ideas for defending Egypt) will be prepared for razing. So much for normal, proven methods for success.