World War II and Governments

[Exile]

What is the best assignment of Civ2 governments in a WWII scenario?

Opinions vary, I assume.

Seems like every time an aspect of a particular governments appeals . . . there's always another problem associated with it.

If you've designed a WWII scen, why did you select the governments you did?

Government switching or not?

[McMonkey]

In WWII Europe and Fortress Europe I have given the AI Fundamentalism to eliminate corruption and unhappiness. I can also stop technological development and give them techs via events. This allows an Allied only tech tree.

This would only work for a scenario where there is one playable nation though!

Still deciding whether to stick with Monarchy for the allies or to give them Communism (both renamed).

[GhostOfDisco]

Well, since I don't think corruption was a problem in Allied-occupied cities the farther they got from London, I'd say go with Communism...

[EZRhino]

Originally posted by McMonkey
In WWII Europe and Fortress Europe I have given the AI Fundamentalism to eliminate corruption and unhappiness. I can also stop technological development and give them techs via events. This allows an Allied only tech tree.

This would only work for a scenario where there is one playable nation though!

There is a way easier way to do this in MGE! But I agree, for scenarios focusing on military conflict fundamentalism is the way to go. The AI uses it's units far more aggressively and effectively with the aforementioned government.

[McMonkey]

I did not realise the AI used its units differently according to government type but now you mention it it seems obvious, BONUS!

I did notice in WWII Europa that the tiny "Fundamentalist" Neutral faction attacked my Torch invasion armada when it strayed too close to Lisbon!

[AGRICOLA]

The one form of povernment that causes MAJOR problems in a modern scen is monarchy.

It is designed for young, smallish civs and develops completely unpredictable city happiness behaviour if the human civ has more than 40-50 cities. A city that is happy can become unhappy on the next turn, even if if nothing else has changed.

[techumseh]

Monarchy is the best representation of fascism, duplicating it's economic inefficiency and high level of corruption. For a human player, the resulting financial deficit provides a historical motive for aggression.

[Exile]

thanks Brian

Good answer. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for at the moment. So Monarchy is a good stand-in for a WWII facist gov. I'm thinking of using Communism AS a Communist gov. And, rather unimaginatively, Britain as Democracy, (w/WS wonder). But no idea what to do with France 1940. The scenario starts in April 1940, so France is about to be overwhelmed, so does it matter WHAT gov France has?

[techumseh]

Communism for communism makes sense. I prefer using Republic for the western powers; it's not so superior to the other 2 government types as to create play balance issues.

I don't use Democracy unless I need a civ to be unbribable, eg. neutrals.

You could use Fundamentalism for an extreme nationalistic government such as Imperial Japan.

[Exile]

The Republic Idea is sound. I'll use it. Japan isn't in this one, just Germany, Russia, Britain/allies, France, and Italy (with Turkey & Spain as player civs, but not intended for play).

I saw something in another thread that indicated there is some connection between Government type and AI aggressiveness. Can anyone verify this? Anecdotal evidence? What government is most pacifist? I don't really want either Spain or turkey to fight if it can be prevented.

edit; ah, it's in this thread that I saw it. lol.

[EZRhino]

In an experiment last year, I set up a civilization that ran communism, was by default at war with its neighbors and incapable of negotiating, and had only the option of building military units and settlers (rather than city improvements for instance). With low starting forces it occasionally attacked other players, however it built almost exclusively defensive units and was generally lethargic. Under the exact same conditions, when switched to a fundamentalist government it quickly built up an industrial base and then in fairly short order ruthlessly wiped out all nearby civilizations.

Anecdotal evidence as you say. I have observed general trend in other scenarios that fundamentalists are generally more aggressive, and far more willing to use nukes than the other governments, while democracies and republics are more likely to sign peace treaties...

[kobayashi]

I often use Monarchy for the human player...to give it a disadvantage..especially as it gets more successful

[AGRICOLA]

Yes, I know.

[fairline]

Originally posted by techumseh
Monarchy is the best representation of fascism, duplicating it's economic inefficiency and high level of corruption. For a human player, the resulting financial deficit provides a historical motive for aggression.

Monarchy is a good choice to restrict the player, but not necessarily a good simulation for facism for AI civs. Germany ploughed a lot of cash and brains into military technology research, and as a result was streets ahead of the US in terms of the effectiveness of it's war material (nukes aside).

Surely monarchy would be overly-restrictive for an AI civ's scientific research capability?

[Elok]

Well, if that's the problem, give them wonders/improvements to compensate. If the Allies are a Republic, they shouldn't need SETI or anything to keep up. Or you can give the Allies a lot of techs at the beginning to up the cost of research, and then alter the tech paradigm. You can even rename Universities or Research Labs "Work Camps" or something else Nazi-appropriate. I'd worry more about the aforementioned riot factor based on number of cities; I'm not that good on history, but I don't recall that being a big problem for the Germans.

Personally, I'd make them Communists and up the "Communism equals this palace distance" cosmic principle to thirty or fifty or something. Grotesque inefficiency wasn't a matter of breakdowns in administration for Fascists, but innate to the system due to their obsession with whacking skilled professionals for being "objective enemies" and other cases of ideology trumping reality. You'd see roughly the same incompetence in Berlin and Kiev under the Nazis.