WW2 Europe scenario - Atom Bomb needed?

[McMonkey]

Still seems strange to me. Surely it would have been more effective to send the bombers and their escorts against the German troops trying to dislodge the Paras.
Capturing German factories must have been more effective than bombing them!

Anyway, I thought the strategic and tactical air forces were separate. I can appreciate you cannot divert the whole bombing campaign just like that but where were Typhoons and Thunderbolts and all the medium bombers?

Anyway, in 'A Bridge too Far' and 'Band of Brothers' it looked quite sunny! Possibly I am too influenced by films

Also, do you think that a more aggressive commander than Adair (IE someone in the Patton mould) would have pressed on harder or is this part of the myth?

I just cannot understand why after taking such big a gamble you would not move heaven and earth to finish the job. In the end the Allies just seem to give it up. When you look at how willing the Americans were to feed troops into the meat-grinder in the Hurtgen Forest for no real gain then it seems strange that they seem to give it up at Arnhem when there is an opportunity to win the war!

Of course this is no reflection on the Paras who did an amazing job, just the leadership!



EDIT: Please don't feel you have to respond to this. It is way off topic! Should not post when intoxicated!!!

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by McMonkey
EDIT: Please don't feel you have to respond to this. It is way off topic! Should not post when intoxicated!!!

Or maybe you shouldn't be intoxicated...

Note that I might not be the right one to give any lesson on that topic, especially right now...

To come back On Topic, very interesting read: I can't wait to see what the result of this is!

[Case]

Originally posted by McMonkey
Also it was rare for an entire Division to be destroyed in one go. Normally it was Battalions that were chewed up.
If this is the case then Battalion size units would make most sense and separate artillery and AA units would work.

True. However, we have to live with Civ 2's combat system in which the losing unit is always destroyed. If you get the time each turn of the scenario represents right this doesn't matter so much, as it wasn't uncommon for a division to be destroyed or effectively destroyed in a month or so of fighting.

Originally posted by fairline
I'd argue that Guard's Armoured's failures in Op Market Garden were more to do with the near impossible mission of driving up a single causeway in the face of concerted defence by a couple of SS Pz Divs than poor leadership.

From my understanding, the Guards Armoured division had sorted out its difficulties by this stage of the war and was in excellent condition during Market-Garden. However, the division performed poorly during the Normandy Campaign and didn't improve until its leadership had been overhauled (it was also reorganised into a number of combined-arms battlegroups, which seem to have been very successful). I consider its performance during Market-Garden to be pretty good - it mounted a pretty fast advance along a single road in the face of tough resistance.

[curtsibling]

Market Garden was one of those insane objectives that was the fault of the brass, and not the brave men who fought.

Dropping paras into the midst of several powerful SS units is daring at best, foolhardy at worst.

[Broken_Erika]

"last one into germany is a rotten egg!"

[curtsibling]

WW2 had a fair share of rotten eggs!

[techumseh]

Originally posted by curtsibling
Market Garden was one of those insane objectives that was the fault of the brass, and not the brave men who fought.

Dropping paras into the midst of several powerful SS units is daring at best, foolhardy at worst.

More precisely, the result of bad intelligence.

[curtsibling]

As requested (by some) here is a map of the Dictator Europe map...!



There is more of the Atlantic than shown, but I cropped it.

[fairline]

Great map, but I'd crop the bottom part with the Sahara and Arabia. You just need a sliver of N Africa to simulate the desert campaign and there shouldn't be the possibility of outflanking through the impassible Qattara depression.

[curtsibling]

Cheers, fairline!
I'll carry that edit out, as I am more than happy to take advice when it comes to the N-Africa theatre...

The Eastern Front is my strong point in WW2 lore, and the main thrust of the scen will be there...

And with the vast slew of units from 1941-1946, this is going to be very interesting!

On that note, I have the units all done, with winter versions too...All looking cool.

Now the hard task of creating 11 rules/events files is next!

[techumseh]

Just looking at the middle east, it seems that the Mesopotamian region is too narrow, and the Caspian sea is also a bit too far to the west. Otherwise, great map.

[curtsibling]

Looking at it in this scale, I see what you mean, tech.

Would you be up for helping me rectify the distortions in that area?

[techumseh]

Sure, email it. Do you have another map with a grid that you're working from?

[curtsibling]

Cheers, Tech...I was really just making some lazy edits to an existing old Europe map...

Adding in land East of the Urals, etc.

But I made a bit of a mess with the Caspian...!

[curtsibling]

Map sent!