LORD OF THE ONE RING is released

[kobayashi]

CS, You were one of the first to DL it. Did you find it to your liking?

[Tigey]

I was doing some testing (ie: seeing if I could take out the Black Gate with Faramir and the Rangers at the start of the game: nice to see that I can't: good work!). I did try playing about with some of the other events, however, and came across a loophole you might not have noticed.

When you kill a Black Rider, a Nazgul is spawned at Barad-Dur, right? However, if you have destroyed the ring, and Barad-Dur has fallen (ie: replaced with an ocean square), a Nazgul will still spawn, as it's an air unit.

It's not a huge problem, as once you kill the Nazguls, they can't respawn as Black Riders (as they are land units), but I just thought you might want to be aware of it, as the events text gives another impression.

Also, happiness is a big problem for the Men of the West. The # of cities modifier really is punishing, and Kingship is a long, long way away. I don't recommend giving them one of the wonders, or mysticism earlier, but it might be worth thinking about either relaxing the number of ciities penalty, or handing out a few more starting temples/cathedrals, etc.


All in all though, a VERY well designed scenario, with some deviously clever events, which string together to make a very fun experience. Well done!

[kobayashi]

Thanks for you kind comments. I'm glad you enjoyed playing it. I typically use the events and tech tree as the back bone of my scenarios and most of my planning goes into these two things. The pain was in fine-tuning the unit spawning alorithms (and painting the dungeon walls) but I'm glad it has all worked out well.

yes, no one can unlock the gate but the Chosen One. I didn't overlook the Nazgul spawn. As they are all homed to Barud-dur, the moment the foundations of Barud-dur collapse, they all vanish - just like in the book. All the same, you have a sharp eye to have noticed that.

I have given much thought to the happiness dial and I set the riot factor at level where it is still possible to win, but difficult. The idea being that when you are forced to use the Jokers, it reduces your wealth / production. To alleviate the happiness problem (it would seem not that much of a problem for you), the player can either build the 'Return of the Elendilmir' wonder before the Elves or play at one difficulty level lower.

BTW, did you look at the unit Game Concepts menu or describe entries? I was wondering if I should have bothered with them in the first place.

Misc Stuff

someone pointed out that the Army of Dead is not a submarine although the event message claims it is. The message will be fixed in the patch.

Also, the Sea of Rhun willbe changed to the 'Serpent Cavalry' - just a cosmetic change.

[GhostOfDisco]

Originally posted by kobayashi
yes, no one can unlock the gate but the Chosen One. I didn't overlook the Nazgul spawn. As they are all homed to Barud-dur, the moment the foundations of Barud-dur collapse, they all vanish - just like in the book. All the same, you have a sharp eye to have noticed that.

But doesn't the AI like to rehome units (even if their home is NONE ) I once though of a similar plan in 2013: A Union Divided regarding Chávez and the Venezuelan involvement in the war, but I've seen the AI re-home NONE units to particular cities and whatnot. How do you work around this?

And I've been playing it. Moria is confusing as heck and I wonder if I'll ever take Isengard (when do the Ents come?)

Tip: Use the Rohan Lancers to attack the forces of Saruman, but don't try and assault Orthanc itself.

[Elensar]

What there is, is read. What there isn't, is waited for when time permits. : )

My main problem with the happiness things is that while its a very good way to represent an issue for the Men of the West ("Nazgul scare the people of ______"), its also frustrating. I'd make the setting a step friendlier, if I was modifying it.

One thing I wish you could do, though it would require some serious work, is make Helm's Deep walled while retaining its unique look.

I'm afraid I can't imagine how one would do that, though.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by GhostOfDisco
And I've been playing it. Moria is confusing as heck and I wonder if I'll ever take Isengard (when do the Ents come?)

Tip: Use the Rohan Lancers to attack the forces of Saruman, but don't try and assault Orthanc itself.

Yep, according to the books the wall of Isengard was made of normal rock but the tower of Orthanc was built from reinforced concrete, sort of like Sadam's bunker. So wait for the B2s to take out Saruman's scud launchers before going on the offensive...and you won't be getting your B2s until Frodo gets to Amon Hen.

tip: you entered the West entrance at Moria and you're looking for the East exit - plus you know what shape the blacked out area is. Save Gandalf for the Balrog.

[AGRICOLA]

These are a few questions that have arisen, even before I have moved a single unit.

1. How come the King's name has been changed from Aragorn to Aragon?

2. How long is the scen? Judging from the size of the map and the movement rate of units, it looks like a long one. I would be helpful to know if this is going be short and exciting or the opposite.

3. Why have the color coded unit shields been done away with? That makes play more difficult for players. The cut-off health bars also deprive players of useful info.

4. For those of us who either read the books a long time ago or never read them, a brief readme of who is supposed to be doing what to whom would help. I'm still trying to find Frodo and the ring.

5. In the smaller settlements, city improvements appear to have been handed out in a random manner. Size 2 hamlets have aqueducts (needed to grow >4) while size 5 or 6 towns have none and some size 4 villages have no improvements whatsoever. Also, it seems to me that after several millenia of peaceful living, every pastoral hamlet and village would have a temple and a Saturday farmers' market, even if its upkeep cost was 0.

6. Frontier cities are also inconsistently handled. Size 2 hamlets have city walls while many size 4 villages and size 7 Pelargir have none.

7. What, if any, is the significance of some city names being entirely upper case?

8. Normally, when one right-clicks on a foreign city, the name of the owning civ (and trade info) is displayed . This does not seem to be the case in this scen. There is also no indication of what color corresponds to what civ.

[kobayashi]

Welcome aboard. I know LOTOR is not structured in the typical strategic format you are used to. You are meant to react to events not plan ahead. In fact, its more enjoyable if you don't know the storyline intimately. Please give the game a chance and bear with it for a few turns and everything will make sense after that, you'll see.

As to your points:

1. Funny how nobody noticed that until now. That will definetly have to be patched.

2. I would estimate that you’d complete all your quests and destroy the Ring in 130 days or so if you did everything in a timely fashion. The actual time taken will vary depending on each player’s style and there is no set time limit, but the AI build up would crush you if you don’t do what the event messages require of you. There are no time index events so everything is fluid.

3. I know its not normal to do away with the shield but in this case I think its ok. You can generally tell friend from foe from the appearance of the unit but there is a small coloured square under the health bar on the right if ever in doubt. Your allies typically won’t come near you so you can assume everything out there that is not yours is the enemy. You can still see the shield info like 'F' even if the shield is not there.

4. Event messages will tell you exactly what you need to do, as and when you need to do them. The fellowship units don’t appear until turn two so you are not overloaded with info when the scenario starts. When they activate, the screen will jump to their location in Moria and there will be an event message telling you what is going on.

5. The choice of improvements are not perfect but they are not random. For example, Cair Andros is a garrison on an island named Cair Andros and there is actually no settlement there, hence it has no improvements. The Rohan are semi-nomadic so there is generally nothing in their villages etc. There was really not much of a religion thing going on in Middle Earth, hence the use of hero shrines instead of temples. Again, the locations of cities is important as to what happiness improvements they have, if any – that’s why the Shire towns get a tavern instead of a hero shrine.

6. A size two city with walls is supposed to be ruins. Other than that, the only places with walls are the older Gondor cities around Minas Tirith. I've also used the walled and no walled city icons to increase the number of city types.

7. Uppercase means it’s a region name. The city represents the villages of the region. If the name is in lowercase, it means it’s a real town or city. This is a necessary compromise as not that much is known about the settlements of the third age.

8. I had to remove all contact or else Mordor and Isengard will keep activating the diplomatic screen to boast to you what they have just researched, which is very often as they have an entirely different tech tree. There is no trade (which activates the city right click) and a city’s ownership is evident from its logo. If it’s a tree (black or green) its friendly and if not, its one of the baddies. I will add some race specific info in the intro text in the next version. Until then, you can consider Modor, Isengard and the Mordor Allies to be one big nasty tribe for all intents and purposes.

[kobayashi]

just to ramble on some more....

as you research tiems, you can click on the description button and incrementally you can learn more background info and get a deeper appreciation of things happening. For example, th entry for Denethor's Dilemma is


Denethor, Steward of Gondor, would have to yield control of the Kingdom back to its rightful King Aragon if he somehow managed to hold Minas Tirith against the might of Mordor. On the other hand, if the great city fell, Gondor would be lost and there would be nothing left for him to be Steward of. With the death of his son Boromir, wisdom gave way to dispair and he decided the second was the lesser of two evils. In his youth, Denethor's father, Ecthelion II, always preferred the loyal warrior Thorongil to his own son, and it was ironical that Thorongil was none other than Aragon himself.
(yes I will do a global conform for AragoRn later)

and the entry on the pirates goes like this
The Corsair Pirates were descendents of the followers of Castamir the Usurper, the loser in the Gondor succession wars known as the 'Kin-Strife'. King Eldacar finally slew the usurper after Castamir held the throne for ten years and the remnants of his forces and his surviving sons retreated by ship to the Port Umbar, far to the south. These descendants became the "Corsairs of Umbar", fierce pirates who terrorized the coastal areas of Gondor. They were part of the Army of Darkness and threathened Gondor from the South even as Mordor attacked from the East.

and a bit on the concept of frontier cities....

By the time of Frodo, Gondor had gone into decline and all the frontier fortifications (Minas Morgul, Narchost & Carchost, Durthang) had long fallen to the enemy or been abandoned. The only real fortification was at Osgiliath as the only bridge across the Anduin was located there. When that bridge was cast down in desperation by Boromir, the river itself became the frontline.

Well I hope that helps.

[AGRICOLA]

Thanks for taking time to answer my questions.

Meanwhile, the budget has been almost balanced and the treasury greatly enriched by the sale of city improvements. Sanctuaries have been selected for those horny-handed sons of the soil, the peasants. Aragorn and his pals are bugging out posthaste from Henneth Annun and the place is being prepared for razing. The garrison in doomed Osgiliath West is in transit to the relative safety of Minas Tirith and its D bonus. The research rate has been tweaked up to a very respectable tech/2 turns. Sadly, a rate of a tech/turn had to be rejected as a bit too hard on the treasury.

Oh yes, those elusive little beggars, Frodo and Sam, have deigned to report for duty.

The fun has begun.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by GhostOfDisco
But doesn't the AI like to rehome units (even if their home is NONE )

I've checked my game all the Nazgul vanished with Barad dur so I'm not too worried on that front. However, you've got me thinking about a way to reduce the number of Uruk-hai and Olog-hai. If I home half of them to Orthanc and Minas Morgul, some of them would eventually have to be disbanded. So far no one has really complained there were too many of the orcs but I'll keep that in mind.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Elensar

One thing I wish you could do, though it would require some serious work, is make Helm's Deep walled while retaining its unique look.

I'm afraid I can't imagine how one would do that, though.

Helm's Deep was originally with walls as I had the same thought as you but other cities began to look like it when they grew in size. Given the minimum setting for Sewer is 7, and the third city comes on at size 6, I don't see a way out. The terrain beneath Helm's Deep makes it strong and I think its just right at the moment. If I found a way to give it walls, I'd have to change its terrain to grassland to compensate.

anyway thanks for all your suggestions.

[Elensar]

Yeah. So far as actually holding its fine. Its more just the disconcerting visual image if you slip up and let it fall to population below the right level.

Verrrrry good graphic.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Sanctuaries have been selected for those horny-handed sons of the soil, the peasants.

Aragorn and his pals are bugging out posthaste from Henneth Annun and the place is being prepared for razing.

The garrison in doomed Osgiliath West is in transit to the relative safety of Minas Tirith and its D bonus.

Peasants can't move can they?

You mean Faramir is bugging out right? Aragorn is with the FOTR in the Mines.

I suggest maintaining the Osgiliath garrison for the time being - for happiness. It won't be attacked for a another two months yet and it produces lots of gold. I'd suggest rehoming the garrison incrementally so they can bugger out at a moments notice though.

2 techs per turn! man that's cruel. Now you're getting into the spirit of things.

[Arthedain]

That was one of my main concerns. Couldn't get a good enough research rate