Civ2MP

[EyesOfNight]

lol I posted 12 saves from my last game with him. Raise your hand here if your first two huts have been two 100 gold huts ina row on a small map duel before? How about 3 100 gold huts in 5 huts total? You're a total joke Bhaal.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Drixnak
Unfortunately I don't even have an audience this time around and these guys don't even know anything about the game.

Maybe if I changed the name of the thread to "Eye's is back" we would get a better audience. The current thread title doesn't attract attention

[Bhaal]

Raise your hand here if your first two huts have been two 100 gold huts ina row on a small map duel before? How about 3 100 gold huts in 5 huts total?

I found in the short games vs. you 2 cities and a nomad until 2 rounds in 3 huts in a row. 100 gold in the first or second hut, after first city was not rare also.

But indeed 3 x 100 gold out of 5 huts is quite rare. But impossible? - No. Your saves only proving a lucky very start by your opponent in one of four games. You lost they all. Be you able to proof extrem lucky gold starts for every single one??

[EyesOfNight]

Actually, it is impossible. Just try getting 2 100 gold huts in 5 huts, then we'll talk. You'll never get it. 100 gold huts are the most rare hut in the game. Also, I took screenshots of his timer freezing yesterday.

1. I've already explained why it freezes, and it's well known.

2. His timer doesn't freeze at the same time every game which means it's not something he's doing in game that is causing it.

3. He's done it 5 out of 5 games now which means he's definitely using a program outside of civ2 to cause it.

At this point, I just don't care anymore. I know it's him, but I don't have the technical know how to get around his proxies. If you guys want to play with him you do so at your own risk. I'm not going to waste anymore time trying to prove to you who he is.

[EyesOfNight]

Some screenshots.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=89476_timerfreeze.zip

[SlowThinker]

I don't understand: hexediting may be easily detected if you compare two saves.
I never use such risky ways of cheating, I simply open map of my opponent on another comp, and this is undetectable...

[EyesOfNight]

Actually that's not true at all. Don't speak if you don't know what you're talking about.

[SlowThinker]

Thank you for the elucidation.

[Mighty SunTzu]

Eye's Quote: "3. He's done it 5 out of 5 games now which means he's definitely using a program outside of civ2 to cause it. "

The problem with eyes (well, one of the many problems with him) is that he draws ridiculous conclusions and since he expresses them as if he is "Positive there can be no other explanation", he believes that his expressed level of certainty will convince his "audience". A lot of people can see through his delusions.

He is also positive that i am Bud halpert.. and that two other players in our liga, Buddy and Zak, are also Bud Halpert. There really seems to be some kind of a serious Bud Halpert obsession with this guy. He was "positive" that i had the same Michigan ip address as Bud, but later admitted he lied and that mine shows up as California, which is indeed where i am. But as an extension to his delusion that i am Bud, he was certain that i had some high tech system in place to throw him off.

If the timer freezes, i can only say that there must be some other explanation other than "hex editing" as i do not cheat. Unlike eyes, cheating is not melded into my character. By contrast, playing honorably and respecting my opponents is. I know it seems to freeze on the opponents end during my popups and possibly during any occasional city management during the turn. Seems this timer freezing happens a lot with other opponents too including one opponent i have lost 8 games to in the past 9 (Almost all were close games damn it! ), Bhaal. As Bhaal attested above, he and Jes and others in the liga know me to be a fair and honest player.

3 100 gold huts in 5 rare? Sure! Can u set out to open 3 100 gold huts out of 5 and succeed? Probably not in many many games! Impossible? Nearly nothing in this world is impossible. Try to roll snake eyes three times out of five. It is statistically improbable, but has it never happened? Of course it has. I proved in one game and one game only, that getting 3 100 gold huts out of 5 is not impossible. In the same game, Eyes had great luck where 3 of his first 4 cities were tribes. My luck was even better getting 250 or more early gold, enabling me to place my cities better than his in hand picked spots. I spoke with other true players that have had similar experiences.

This kid falsely tosses around the word "impossible" and the words "i am positive" in situations that are indeed not impossible whatsoever and in situations where there is no way for him to be positive. It seems to be a part of his egotistical and narcisistic nature. If i am not mistaken, this kid is legitimately sick in the head, paranoid delusions and all. All i know is that i beat him 4 games out of 4 and since his overblown Ego can't take it, he's searching for a way to convince himself that those games were not valid. After Bhaal beat him 2 of 2 and I beat him 4 of 4, he still insists on ridiculously calling us beginners.

For anybody interested, there is a whole thread in the liga forum on this starting with the day Eyes marched in spouting off how great he is, disrespecting those around him, saying how all 1x1x deity players are beginners, etc. Most of it is in English.

http://www.civ2liga.de/thread.php?threadid=2304&boardid=9

[Mighty SunTzu]

Since some will not wish to read that entire thread, i decided to paste a couple of the posts related to me Eye's little drama.

A little background:

The Delusions of Grandeur this guy is filled with are not only comical, but strangely disturbing. No shortage of Self-Love here. He is a reknowned, proven, and self admitted cheater. Has a history of using a 2nd computer to reveal maps as well as granting himself lots of gold and anything else he wishes. (Like his own genie, his wish is his command). I don't doubt he has built 50 cities by 50 bc in 1x1x deity. With an unlimited pot o' gold along with other tricks that's really no challenge at all. With map reveal, he knows the moment an enemy unit gets close to one of his cities, and then shazam, like magic, a defender appears in that city! The leagues he was in, he was kicked out of... for being caught cheating. Then he comes back in under a different name and gets kicked out again. If you play him, just a thought.. you might want to save every turn so u can go back later and see where he cheated. The honor and integrity observed in most players in this liga are parts of his character that are simply missing.

Now to address some of his funny points. He speaks as a person who really doesn't know the game at all.

"HG is unbeatable in 1x1x deity".

So funny as to be ridiculous. Sure HG is nice, but unbeatable? If the civs are fairly close together and on separate lands, Lighthouse in the right hands, by providing control of the sea wins far more games than HG. With Lamp, you control the steals, the foreign trade, and the wonders. As well, you keep the pressure on the other player (militarily) making it necessary for him to defend most of his cities. You force him to get pikemen as phalanx's in the dirt can not stand up to elephants. And as he pursues Feudalism to save his life, you steal his techs along the way and easily build SunTzu's for yourself. Then you repeat these same steps as he researches the Navigation path for you and you easily build Magellans.

"1x1x deity is a beginners setting".

The same players who are great in 1x1x deity would be great in 2x2x king. It is a small adjustment. A civ master can master either setting. That would also hold true, by the way, for 4x4x or 10x10x. His preference is 2x2x king and in his conceit and arrogance (and in his naivete) he assumes that anybody enjoying a different setting is a beginner.

"There is no strategy in 1x1x deity... it always comes down to a race for HG".

There are so many different ways to go in this game, each of which will win games in different situations. How close is the enemy? This impacts everything. Ten steps away? Better rush a bunch of horses and get him before he gets you. Or if he is found to be suitably defended against your horses, better build some barracks and devise a strategy for the best veteran units to suit the situation. Are there important mountains and hills between the civs to strive for? A fast embassy would be extremely helpful here. Does he have pikemen? I'd better not waste my resources on elephants. Does he have Math? I'd better get it too or i'll lose all of my defensive hilltops. Will everything be choked off making boats the key? Is the enemy half way around the world? Wow, this brings an entirely different strategy. Better build lots of cities. Maybe go find him... but if i invest too much too early to find him, i might fall way behind in cities. Is it worth it? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps build some strategic cities right near him from which to dispatch diplomats for an embassy and steals or perhaps horses to catch some empty cities. Monarchy first or Republic? Which early wonders to go for: Lighthouse, HG, Pyramids, Suns? What does the situation call for? How large or small is my continent? How much to sacrifice early to get the wonder you want? Can you live with having 7 cities and a wonder vs. 14 cities? Then later, do i pursue Mikes or Magellans or Leos/Statue? Each wonder brings with it it's own strategies. Critical mass, or aggressive early exploration? Trade or military? This is a short, partial list of nearly unlimited strategic options to consider when playing each game, whether 1x1x or 2x2x.

In 2x2x king, some of the strategies are different, but that is to be expected. Catapults can land and attack in the same turn, so no grass city is safe with any defender. Control of the sea therefore becomes even more important. Most 2x2x players today ban naval wonders. In 1x1x deity, you have to plan to land the catapult safely (on a hilltop accompanied by a pike if the enemy doesn't have math for example.. and attack the next turn). In 2x2x king, you would almost never want to expend the energy of any settler irrigating. No city ever starves! In 1x1x deity, irrigation is necessary at some point to celebrate and grow and thus becomes part of the strategy. Harbors for the same reason may become a part of the strategy. In 2x2x a player who irrigates or builds harbors is probably confused (unless your cities get to be say size 20). In 2x2x king, horses move 4 steps and can brighten up large black areas very quickly. Science is nearly double in cities, so u decide whether you want to take your chances in huts (finding more 4 movement horses, which in turn find more tribes, etc..) or protect your government tech path. Horseback first and rushing huts is one highly viable strategy in 2x2x because you will have your government soon enough even with multiple off path techs, especially if you have a goldmine city giving you 8 science. As well... despotism in 2x2x king is not really such a terrible thing if it lasts a bit longer. In 1x1x deity, u need a gov fast or the anarchists will take over. That 9th city will get you every time. As well, horses that move 4 steps can mean a fast conquest of the enemy's empty capital. AND ESPECIALLY WITH EYE'S CUTE LITTLE ADVANTAGE OF MAP REVEAL!! Twice as fast as with 1x1x. In 1x1x deity, it is quite important to protect your government path or against another strong player, it can mean your early demise. Each setting offers it's own unique set of strategies... With both settings the differing strategies are nearly infinate.

[Mighty SunTzu]

and a second one.. wasn't able to post the third which was a reply to his "positive proof that i was opening empty huts and making 100 gold magically appear each time".

First of all, i wish to sincerely thank my friends and other liga members for your kind words and support. A special thanks to both Bhaal and Koty, and also to Szaryld and Darkrayden. As Jes stated earlier, i am really proud of this liga. There is far more honor here with "10" active players than the gameleage of 1999 was able to showcase with 300 and i have always been attracted to liga for this reason.

Now where to begin? I will wish to comment on other points in the near future, but with limits to my time, this post will be a partial.

"Your little league has about 10 active players, Gameleague had 300+ active players."

If our liga has only ten active players, the amazing thing is that all ten play stronger, sounder civ than you. I am amazed with your amateurish city placement among other extreme flaws in your game. If you were truly the strongest player in your 300 man league, what does this say about the level of competition that existed in that league? It seems very clear to me that players of today have brought this game to a whole new level. I will specifically say that playing vs guys like Bhaal, Koty, Max, Jes, Lry and Liubei has opened up my game and simply made me stronger. When i first started in this liga, i was a strong player, very strong even, but Jes, Max and Koty were definately stronger.

In an epic game with Koty about 1.5 years ago, when i was an up and coming player, i was greatly impressed with the power of having more cities, more tons and more gold income than your enemy and it changed the way i have played ever since as i definately became one of the most prolific city builders in the game.

The first thing i had to do after ten losses and probably before this game with Koty was change from horseback first to a more sensible and protected government path, a path that helps to minimize the effect of huts, whether good or bad, a path that really takes a lot of the risk out of the early start and allows good skill to flourish. Making that one change and a couple of others brought me to a level with the other strongest players.

I know that your entire philosophy in your 2x2x king small map games revolves around opening every hut you can as fast as possible, regardless of how many off path techs this brings. In 1x1x deity, medium map, i learned that in most instances, this doesn't work.

You use derogatory terms like "your little league" and you like to say the game is dead, but there are at least ten active players in this liga stronger than you ever were. And even more players when you count those who are no longer active.

"It amazes me that people are so willing to play with a cheater, especially when they are so new to the game as to not even know who he is or what he's done. I spent 3 years during gameleague catching and removing the guy over and over again and I haven't been wrong once. This time I have never been so sure that he cheated and that he is Bud. Again, it doesn't say much for you guys when you take the side of a known cheater vs someone like me who was known as one of the top players of all time on civfanatics and Apolyton".

I have 100 games over the past 4 seasons, many of which are well documented in the forums, win or lose. If i was a cheater, i simply would have been caught. It's true that sometimes hut luck is so fantastic that a cynic would suspect cheating. You yourself said you got 3 early tribes one game and yet i don't accuse you of cheating with such fantastic luck. If i got 200 gold from huts in one turn, you say this is "impossible". I think you need to look up that word in the dictionary. You also thought it was impossible for you to lose a game with HG, an absurdly ridiculous contention. I agree that 200 gold in one turn is a fantastic thing and believe me, i was excited as it was happening. But impossible? Szaryld has gotten 250 gold in one turn so he has me beat. Zak makes a great point. Why be so amazed at 200 gold in one turn and not be amazed about your 2 or 3 tribes all grouped together? Everybody knows this kind of thing happens, everybody knows sometimes u win and other times you lose from it, and everybody knows that in 2x2x king, the hut luck factor is exponentially stronger than in the more skill-based 1x1x deity game.

I admit, my hut luck on this day was pleasing to me, though i believe with my skill level vs. yours, i would beat you at least 9 games out of ten if we took huts out of the game . Again i have to smile when i think of the way you place your cities. It's so adorable like watching a toddler take his first steps. Though my huts were good overall on this day, and it sounds like yours were too, I have many other days where my huts vs those of my opponent destroy me, especially in a game where i am found early.

Am i a cheater?

I have lost 8 of the past 9 games with Bhaal and if i was a cheater, this would simply not be so. I have never had what you have demonstrated: a desire or willingness to cheat to bring bring victory AS WELL AS AN EGO THAT DEMANDS IT. I simply love this game and play the best i can in every situation, humbly and with respect for my many excellent opponents. Win or lose, i have enjoyed many excellent games with the following fine players: Bhaal, Jes, Koty, Max, Liubei, Lry, Zylka, Noxxe, Lunatic and others, forgive me if i am forgetting to mention anybody. Also recently, 2 with Szaryld. I try my best to win in every situation, even continuing to play a bad position that many players would resign, but if i lose, i lose, that's it. Unlike you, in my heart a victory with cheating would be far worse than an honest loss. I have many honest losses and therefore i hold onto my honor and integrity which are far more important than any victory. I hope for you that one day you will aspire towards these character qualities, qualities which spilleth over in this fine liga. What a different person you would be if you actually could bring honor and integrity into your life! Oh, by the way, your timer was not counting down? Other players have mentioned that to me also. Bhaal has that also happened to you in your 8 wins over me out of the last 9 games? I have no idea why that would be happening, but i do know three things: You are a far weaker player than you egotistically and delusionally imagine yourself to be, HG is indeed beatable in 1x1x deity, and cheating is not creating the stopped clock.

Am I Bud Halpert?

"Again, you have no idea who he is. I've known him for 8 years, how long have you known him for? I was in charge of catching and removing cheaters from gameleague."

If i believed my best friend was Napoleon, that would not make him Napoleon, no matter how strongly i believed it. Your delusion that I am Bud Halpert is equally ridiculous and the more you insist on believing this, the more of a buffoon you show yourself to be.

I know Bud Halpert and i will reiterate something that everybody here except "Eyes" already knows. I am not him. There are at least 4 players who have known both of us for at least a couple years and would swear on a stack of bibles that we are two different individuals. Zylka is one, Freaky is another, and 2 players in the 2x2x king world, Zep and Atawa.

I actually know Bud and between Bud and Eyes, Bud has a lot more honor. It is true that Bud has been to prison (i don't know what he did) and true Bud has admitted to cheating in the 1999 or so gameleague era (something i did not know about until Eyes brought it up in this past week and Bud confirmed it). I still think it's funny and so blatantly ironic that the most reknowned cheater in gameleague history, "Eyes himself", became a policing agent for catching other cheaters . Could such a preposterous thing ever happen in our honorable liga?

Nevertheless, if Bud was a cheater in 1999, i believe he has really changed since then because i have about a dozen 2x2x king saves with him and i have never felt he has cheated, though when he gets a better small map start then me, he beats me. For one reason, he is a good player, but also, when anybody gets a superior small map 2x2x king start than anybody else, they have a great chance to win the game because the luck factor can be absolutely phenomenal... A lot of games you start 10-20 steps apart (2.5 to 5 turns away with a 4 step horse) and u see a lot more 3 city to one starts than in 1x1x deity. If player B is weaker than player A, but knows where player A is and builds 3 horses to "A's" one, 6 to his 2, and 9 to his 3, Player B wins the game. The most skilled player in this situation can not stop the inevitable. This by the way is another quality that has attracted me to 1x1x deity. In 1x1x, especially medium map or larger, the winner in a much higher % of the games is the more skilled player. There is luck, sure, but the luck factor is geometrically exaggerated in the 2x2x king game.

Nevertheless, regardless of what happened in 1999, I believe that Bud, like many of us, has a love for the game and doesn't want to spoil it with cheating. If anybody ever played vs Bud, it would be easy to see that our game styles are completely different. For one thing, if we don't find eachother early, i will typically have 2-3 times more cities than him as he is focusing more strongly on other areas of his game. Players who know me know that i often go zero science for centuries and centuries and focus on gold and expansion, hoping to find the enemy, steal his techs and race for key wonders later (sometimes to my benefit, other times to my demise), see current game vs. Bhaal: Nobody with an ounce of sense could ever think we were the same player. But then nobody ever confused Eyes with somebody that has an ounce of sense.

[battosai]

Doubled move, doubled prod, small map, two players, KING ? That's just arcade civ, if you ask me. :P

[EyesOfNight]

2x2x King small map has always and will always be the setting of competitive games. When this game was alive it was used by 90% of the people. Yours truly was a big part of making that setting standard. It is only now that the game is dead do we see mostly 1x1x Deity games.

[-Jrabbit]

2x1x Rah Rules.

[EyesOfNight]

Rah rules are for non-competitive boring games among old people.