Civ2MP

[Mighty SunTzu]

Eyes: "Yours truly was a big part of making that setting standard."

Can there never be an opportunity to boast that this narcisistic kid resists?

Eyes: "It is only now that the game is dead do we see mostly 1x1x Deity games".

The game is older and people have moved to newer games with nicer graphics. But civ 2 while not as popular as it once was remains popular today among people who love this game and can live with the outdated graphics.

Eyes: "2x2x King small map has always and will always be the setting of competitive games. "

Sun: It must be nice to be so simple minded and to see things only one way. How care free and gay life must be! It's true that the 2x2x settings became popular because there were 2 leagues out there where these settings happened to catch on... and players that wanted leagues had really no choice but to play 2x2x king. It is fun and it is competitive, true, but to say that's the only competitive setting for civ is remarkably foolish. I've played a lot of 2x2x king small map and a lot of 1x1x deity and there is a fantastic level of competition in both . In 2x2x king small map, there is a ton of hut luck associated with these settings so often the more skillful player will lose the game. Huts are fun, but if you want a truly competitive game, skill vs. skill.. take them out of the game.

As well, there is a great level of competition in 2x2x king 100x100 map. I am attaching a post with saves of a great, current game i am having with Lry.

http://www.civ2liga.de/thread.php?threadid=2322&boardid=4

[EyesOfNight]

Go away cheater. Your opinion no longer counts. They may respect it on civ2liga because they're too stupid and new to the game to know how you cheat. Everyone here though is well acquainted with hex editing and cheating so you aren't fooling anyone.

[EyesOfNight]

Oh, and it's really amazing just how bad you are at this game when you're not buying settlers, horsemen, and barracks in the first 15 turns of the game because you just happened to find 3 100 gold huts in your first 5 huts. You build 1 space apart, you don't go for the huts, you defend with archers. Seriously, no one in the top 50 played that way and you haven't found some new way to play. You're a total beginner when you're not rush buying everything.

[Ming]

Originally posted by EyesOfNight
Rah rules are for non-competitive boring games among old people.

Just trading one type of competition for another. Both game settings are indeed very different, but both can be competitive.

But in the end, it's all a matter of opinion, not fact.
And we all know loud and clear what you opinion is

[Mighty SunTzu]

Originally posted by EyesOfNight
Go away cheater. Your opinion no longer counts. They may respect it on civ2liga because they're too stupid and new to the game to know how you cheat. Everyone here though is well acquainted with hex editing and cheating so you aren't fooling anyone.

They respect me in liga because i've played over a hundred games there, 80% victories, and it is clear to everybody that i do not cheat. Also, because i respect the other players, something you might actually consider trying one day, even if just for the sheer heck of it. I simply play a strong game.

I didn't even know what hex editing was until someone who actually used it, You, pointed it out to me. That and the other thing i heard about for the first time from you, "Cheat O' Matic". I assume you're right that many people in the liga don't know what these are. Who, besides you, is so desperate to win illegitimately that they go out and buy actual cheating software? To me it's just unimaginable. Honor and integrity, things you tossed out the window long ago, are far too essential to me.

Regarding the quality of my game, that speaks for itself and the puny and ridiculous words of the bitter little guy who went 0 and 4 vs. me, the first 3 of those games without my finding the nice gold huts, are beneath worthless.

[EyesOfNight]

Every game was the same. I challenge anyone here to get 2 100 gold huts in a row in the first 5 turns of the game as your first 2 huts. Then go and get a third 100 gold hut in a total of 5 huts. Also, while we're at it, someone find a way to freeze the timer without hex editing. It simply can't be done. I am the grandfather of hex editing in this game. I know it inside and out. I can say with 100% certainty you hex edited your gold in just like all the others who did it over the past 8 years. Your game doesn't speak for itself because it's incredibly week. All someone has to do is look at the way you build your cities and the way you play to see that without rush building everything in the first 15 turns you are nothing. You're nothing more than a beginner.

[Deity Dude]

Everyone who has ever played this game with Eyes knows he only plays 2x2x king maps that he hosts. If you look thru past threads you will see thousands of times he has said I sucked but then refused to play me in 1x1x deity. I offered to play him for $50 and let Ming hold the money. He refused.

At one time he was 1 of the top 10 players at his specific setting in a league notorious for cheating, that he himself admitted to cheating in. Congrats but it hardly makes you anywhere near the best player of all-time.

For the record SunTzu is not Bud. I've known both of them for about 5 and 6 years respectively. SunTzu used to go by Stealth.

For the record no one that I know of has ever even insinuated that SunTzu has ever cheated. I remember explaing some of the cheats I had heard of to him because he knew nothing of them. The same can not be said of Eyes.

For the record SunTzu and the whole group of liga players that I know are 10 times classier than Eyes will ever be.

For the record If I had to bet on a 1x1x deity game 100 x 100 map I would feel comfortable taking SunTzu against Eyes and giving Eyes 5 to 1 odds. If you are interested Eyes let me know and I will arrange it

Those guys in liga have totally changed the way the game is played (at least 1x1x deity). I can't say I like the new style of play and therefore I don't play 1x1x deity competitively anymore. But, just because I don't like the new style doesn't mean that it is the best known now and would kick you ass all over the place. Well that should be obvious because you won't even play me 1x1x deity and these guys nowadays probably beat me easily 4 out 5 times - if not more.

I will say one thing about Eyes though - he is always good for a laugh and it appears he will never grow-up.

[EyesOfNight]

Everyone who has ever played this game with Eyes knows he only plays 2x2x king maps that he hosts.

Try telling that to all the people who have hosted games against me recently. Strike 1.

At one time he was 1 of the top 10 players at his specific setting in a league notorious for cheating, that he himself admitted to cheating in. Congrats but it hardly makes you anywhere near the best player of all-time.

Correction, I was THE best at that setting. As some might recall, I also went through and beat everyone on 2x1x, 1x1x, medium maps, and the whole 9 yards. My series of games on all settings with markusf included 1x1x deity on medium maps as well. The fact is, none of the top players had any respect for you, on any setting. Strike 2.

For the record SunTzu is not Bud. I've known both of them for about 5 and 6 years respectively. SunTzu used to go by Stealth.

It's rare, but I have been known to be wrong before. That doesn't change the fact I have saves of him, screen shots, of him getting gold and the timer freezing. Perhaps you have another explanation for this? I'm all ears.

For the record SunTzu and the whole group of liga players that I know are 10 times classier than Eyes will ever be.

I'm sorry, I don't ever recall trying to win a popularity contest.

For the record If I had to bet on a 1x1x deity game 100 x 100 map I would feel comfortable taking SunTzu against Eyes and giving Eyes 5 to 1 odds. If you are interested Eyes let me know and I will arrange it

No thanks, I think I'd rather spend my time doing something exciting like...oh, I don't know...watching NASCAR maybe?

Those guys in liga have totally changed the way the game is played (at least 1x1x deity). I can't say I like the new style of play and therefore I don't play 1x1x deity competitively anymore. But, just because I don't like the new style doesn't mean that it is the best known now and would kick you ass all over the place. Well that should be obvious because you won't even play me 1x1x deity and these guys nowadays probably beat me easily 4 out 5 times - if not more.

Yeah, it's pretty intense these days and some really indepth gameplay. Monarchy with suntzu/HG/Lighthouse and Republic with Suntzu/HG/Lighthouse has really changed the way the game is played. I can see why 1x1x Deity was always such a popular setting. Every ladder when the game was popular was just filled with 1x1x Deity games and 1x1x Deity players were well respected. Tournaments, tribe games, you name it, they were all on 1x1x Deity.

I will say one thing about Eyes though - he is always good for a laugh and it appears he will never grow-up.

It's funny you say that for a guy who wants to be money on a computer game and to this day still tries to goad me into his ridiculous beginner settings. You're really not helping Suntzu out here.

[Mighty SunTzu]

Originally posted by EyesOfNight
Every game was the same. I challenge anyone here to get 2 100 gold huts in a row in the first 5 turns of the game as your first 2 huts. Then go and get a third 100 gold hut in a total of 5 huts. Also, while we're at it, someone find a way to freeze the timer without hex editing. It simply can't be done. I am the grandfather of hex editing in this game. I know it inside and out. I can say with 100% certainty you hex edited your gold in just like all the others who did it over the past 8 years. Your game doesn't speak for itself because it's incredibly week. All someone has to do is look at the way you build your cities and the way you play to see that without rush building everything in the first 15 turns you are nothing. You're nothing more than a beginner.

No little buddy, every game was not the same and this is the first time you are claiming that very lucky gold was in any game but the 4th which was the same game you tribed for cities 2, 3, and 4. You really need to get your lies strait. If you now imagine it happened every game, where are all of the saves you so love to put on display, hallucinate a cheat into it, and try to convince those around you by insisting how absolutely positive you are (like you were that i am "Bud Halpert") with only your imagination as proof? ... and then "strengthening" your claim by boasting that you are the grandfather of all cheaters, "so you would know"?

As to all of the other ridiculous and unfounded accusations from a fussy little egotistical guy who lost 4 games of 4, i, along with several other players, have already explained them thoroughly. It's interesting that you claim lucky huts, or fake huts to be the reason i beat you all four times, but if we took the huts out of the game making it a pure contest of skill, you truly would have no chance at all.

I want to post a save here, Eyes vs. Bhaal. Notice the way Eyes placed his cities and ask yourself how a player with an ounce of skill can choose these locations. Eyes is White. Notice how his cap (Naples) is nicely snuggled right next to the river, killing the possibility of 2 perfect river cities instead. My start in this game would have been 4 cities on that river, 2 on the river ends, 2 in between. Extra trade, extra defense, better mobility through your civ are three quick reasons that come to mind. Notice as well how sensibly Bhaal has placed his cities.. kind of like a guy that knows how to play the game.

A second thing may have been going on here that i didn't notice until now. Why would Eyes choose the locations of Issus and Cremona as his 2nd and 4th cities? At first i thought it was just because he's a terrible player. Is there any way possible he could have known there was a whale and a bird hidden in the black without cheating or is "special finder" a part of his cheat software package?

[Mighty SunTzu]

Correction, apologies all around. Naples kills one perfect river city, Issus kills another. Why does this kid hate rivers so much?

[EyesOfNight]

I didn't start saving until I noticed you keeping up with my 3 advanced tribe starts. Starts that normally would have won me any game easily, and still do vs players twice your level. I noticed your timer freezing and then I knew what was going on. Again, I challenge anyone to go get 2 100 gold huts in a row (let alone as your first 2 huts) and try to get 3 100 gold huts in 5 huts. Simply not possible. You also have not once tried to explain how it is your timer freezes which I have personally shown is a result of hex editing. Your best explanation in game was that you were managing your cities. In addition, everyone I have spoken too thinks you are average at best. I asked what Jes was taught by you and he said you didn't teach him anything and that you aren't that high a level player.

[Bloody Monk]

drixnak??

If one removes the ax what remains is drink .

Does this mean something, Rocky??

Monk

[Mighty SunTzu]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by EyesOfNight

Correction, I was THE best at that setting.

If you won by cheating, something you were fantastically notorious for, i'm sorry kid but it really doesn't count for anything. The way you place your cities proves that you couldn't have done that without cheating. I'm guessing that since catching empty capitals was your specialty, map reveal was your cheat of choice.

Eyes: "The fact is, none of the top players had any respect for you, on any setting. Strike 2."

Players respect Deity Dude as an honest and integrous player. It is painstakingly clear that this is not true with you. Strike two.

Eyes: "It's rare, but I have been known to be wrong before. That doesn't change the fact I have saves of him, screen shots, of him getting gold and the timer freezing. Perhaps you have another explanation for this? I'm all ears.

Your ridiculous screenshots prove what? I don't contest that the screen freezes including as i have said before in the 8 of the past 9 games i lost to Bhaal. Where i am a bit confused is how does this prove that "hex editing" is causing it? I'm not on your end seeing the freezing, so i don't know what on my end is causing it. My counter continues to tick down. Nevertheless, your level of certainty that it can only be a hex editor is in perfect alignment with your egotistical nature as well as your with your level of certainty that i am Bud Halpert and other things you are so completely positive about. All i know for sure is that you are wrong.

Deity Dude: "For the record SunTzu and the whole group of liga players that I know are 10 times classier than Eyes will ever be."

Eyes: "I'm sorry, I don't ever recall trying to win a popularity contest".

You're definately not trying to win a classiness contest either. Your complete absense of respect for others, their preferences in game settings, their points of view, etc assures everybody of that.

Eyes: "No thanks, I think I'd rather spend my time doing something exciting like...oh, I don't know...watching NASCAR maybe?"

No thanks, you'd rather not get whipped again, this time on a setting where you truly would have no chance whatsoever.

Eyes: "Yeah, it's pretty intense these days and some really indepth gameplay. Monarchy with suntzu/HG/Lighthouse and Republic with Suntzu/HG/Lighthouse has really changed the way the game is played."

You yourself said that in 1x1x deity, HG can't lose. Today players are proving daily that this is not true, such as by dominating the sea with lighthouse, and a critical mass Pyramids game (which i'm sure you don't know anything about) and yet you spout off as if nobody has come up with an original idea. You talk about getting "suntzu, hg and lighthouse" as boring outdated concepts, but these are some of the great tools the game offers to players that want to win. It's like saying "wow, that exciting concept of using your queen and rook to checkmate the enemy". Of course you will try to build hg or lighthouse or Sun tzu's in civ. What the game offers us hasn't changed. These are still 3 fantastic early wonders, each stronger than the other depending on the situation. And in addition to things that don't change, players today embrace Concepts like "Critical Mass" and "Super trade" which are a little bit outside your level of excellence (horsey races for lucky huts and empty capitals, probably with a revealed map).

Eyes: "I can see why 1x1x Deity was always such a popular setting. Every ladder when the game was popular was just filled with 1x1x Deity games and 1x1x Deity players were well respected. Tournaments, tribe games, you name it, they were all on 1x1x Deity."

Again, this is what caught on at the time. Now there is a 1x1x deity league that draws some of the strongest players (Bhaal, Jes, Liubei, Koty, Max, SunTzu, others) as well as a 100x100, 2x2x king contingency (Lry, Zep, Kingus, Atawa, others which also draws some of the strongest players). I play in both realms so i can state from first hand experience that the 1x1x deity masters are definately as strong as the 2x2x masters... And Jes, one of the strongest players in your league 8 years ago when he wasn't being cheated against, how much stronger do you think he is today with another 8 years of experience as well as 8 years worth great opponents helping to shape and transform his game?

What has mostly died among todays players is the small map 2x2x king horsey race game because players today realize how much luck is involved there. It's the difference between playing speed checkers and chess. Serious players seek a game that is more skill based, a game where a lesser player can get really lucky huts and better land and the stronger player can still beat him. The amazing thing is that it's ok to like whatever setting you prefer, even if it's a 2x2x king small map horsey race.

[EyesOfNight]

If you won by cheating, something you were fantastically notorious for, i'm sorry kid but it really doesn't count for anything. The way you place your cities proves that you couldn't have done that without cheating. I'm guessing that since catching empty capitals was your specialty, map reveal was your cheat of choice.

If you're accusing me of using 2 computers, that's a joke. If you're trying to accuse me of cheating, we went over this back in 1999. The fact that I created the way this game is played speaks for itself. The fact that I was used by gameleague to police it, that just seals the deal. What have you done?

You're definately not trying to win a classiness contest either. Your complete absense of respect for others, their preferences in game settings, their points of view, etc assures everybody of that.

It's the internet, nobody gives a **** about classiness. You obviously have far too much invested in your online persona.

You yourself said that in 1x1x deity, HG can't lose. Today players are proving daily that this is not true, such as by dominating the sea with lighthouse, and a critical mass Pyramids game (which i'm sure you don't know anything about) and yet you spout off as if nobody has come up with an original idea. You talk about getting "suntzu, hg and lighthouse" as boring outdated concepts, but these are some of the great tools the game offers to players that want to win.

Pyramids? You obviously don't know anything about the way I used to play, the style that I made my name on in the early years of civleague. Pyramids used to be the first wonder I got. Like I said, I evolved the game over the years and everyone followed me. Do you really think there is anything you can do on 1x1x Deity that I haven't already done?

And in addition to things that don't change, players today embrace Concepts like "Critical Mass" and "Super trade" which are a little bit outside your level of excellence (horsey races for lucky huts and empty capitals, probably with a revealed map).

Again, I see nothing you guys are doing that I didn't already do...8 years ago. You only further erode your credibility by accusing me of revealing the map. I don't know of too many old time players that would agree with you on that one.

Again, this is what caught on at the time. Now there is a 1x1x deity league that draws some of the strongest players (Bhaal, Jes, Liubei, Koty, Max, SunTzu, others) as well as a 100x100, 2x2x king contingency (Lry, Zep, Kingus, Atawa, others which also draws some of the strongest players).

Now there is a 1x1x Deity league? Look at your records, it's been around since 2001. It only "caught on" after the game died and everyone left simply because you were the only ones left around. Liubei is Lry in case you didn't know. Koty has never played another setting besides 1x1x Deity before and has played MP what, like 2 years? You aren't a strong player, if you want I can post saves and go step by step why you aren't. I've known Jes since the old days of civleague and I don't place him in the same category as you. You think far too highly of what little skill you have. Lry, Zeppelin, Atawa, Kingus, again, I've known them all far longer than you. I played 4 games with Atawa yesterday. Kingus was in my clan. Playing on 100x100 maps with 15 city limits is about as newbie as it gets. They're playing that setting for something new and for lack of options.

What has mostly died among todays players is the small map 2x2x king horsey race game because players today realize how much luck is involved there.

It hasn't died, all the players left. Atawa lost 4 games in a row yesterday, and not to horsey races. "Horsey races" are just the first stage of the game. It's clear from your play you don't really know what to do in a 2x2x small map game.

[Mighty SunTzu]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by EyesOfNight
I didn't start saving until I noticed you keeping up with my 3 advanced tribe starts. "

Your only game with 3 early tribes was the 4th game. that was the only game i was getting lucky gold huts and no tribes or nomads. Other games, we both got some tribes. I was keeping up with you because i am quite simply the stronger player. Again i refer to your city placement. You would have to master that basic concept before you can be a true player.

Eyes: "You also have not once tried to explain how it is your timer freezes which I have personally shown is a result of hex editing."

I have indeed, by stating that i don't cheat and if i did, i wouldn't have lost 8 of the past 9 to bhaal and having several character witnesses speaking in my defense. Others have told me their clock is frozen during my pop ups and all of them know i am not cheating.

Eyes: "Your best explanation in game was that you were managing your cities.".

That's exactly right. What part of that is so hard to understand?

Eyes: "In addition, everyone I have spoken too thinks you are average at best. I asked what Jes was taught by you and he said you didn't teach him anything and that you aren't that high a level player. "

I think this poor sick kid is making things up as he goes along. In the liga posts, on this whole subject, bhaal specifically listed me as one of the 6 players he and others in the liga widely consider to be masters of the game (the same six i mentioned above). Jes definately thinks of me that way, so Eyes is completely lying about this. Jes and i have each won about 50% of our games vs. eachother. Jes told me simply that he had to change his game to accomodate the way i played vs. him and that it made him a stronger player. I am only stating what he told me.

Eyes: "Again, I challenge anyone to go get 2 100 gold huts in a row (let alone as your first 2 huts) and try to get 3 100 gold huts in 5 huts. Simply not possible."

Already responded to this 5 times and your contention remains equally moronic. Remember? The improbability of rolling snake eyes 3 times out of 5? Very unlikely but it's definately happened and therefore not impossible? Szaryld getting 250 gold in one turn beating my 200? Any of this ringing a bell? Do we really need to go over this endlessly?


Eyes: "In addition, everyone I have spoken too thinks you are average at best. I asked what Jes was taught by you and he said you didn't teach him anything and that you aren't that high a level player. "

I think this poor sick kid is making things up as he goes along. In the liga posts, on this whole subject, bhaal specifically listed me as one of the 6 players he and others in the liga widely consider to be masters of the game (the same six i mentioned above). Jes definately thinks of me that way, so Eyes is completely lying about this. Jes and i have each won about 50% of our games vs. eachother. Jes told me simply that he had to change his game to accomodate the way i played vs. him and that it made him a stronger player. I am only stating what he told me.

Eyes: "Starts that normally would have won me any game easily and still do vs players twice your level. "I noticed your timer freezing and then I knew what was going on."

Sorry kid, but in all sincerity, there is no player twice my level, at least none that i have ever known or even heard of, and certainly not you since you are a perfect 0 and 4 vs. me. Even Bhaal who is arguably the best player on the net, those 8 games of 9 he beat me, we're talking about some extremely close games where he had a slight edge. You have to understand that i had beaten him 4 out of 5 leading to this. As well, Bhaal has gone about 50/50 vs. Liubei, about 4 wins each in the past 8 games. Coincidentally, 4 wins and 4 losses is my record against Liubei in the past 8 games as well. Sometimes vs. Bhaal it was just a difference in starts, like 8 river cities vs. 3. Other times i chose Lighthouse and he was too far away for this wonder to be useful (since i don't reveal the map, i didn't know how far he was before building it). Another game, we had 11 cities each and i opened an 8 horse hut that turned the game into 14 cities vs. 8 (a mistake i have not made since, building cities towards these nearby huts before opening them to eliminate this risk). Another game, he got both Invention and Democracy in huts giving him two game-changing wonders that we were hotly competing for. (Surely you would say this is impossible if it happened against you!). Taking nothing from Bhaal, and in fact giving him all the credit that he has earned, he's a fantastic player, a true master of the game and we have both learned a lot playing eachother. But if i'm 4 and 4 with Liubei and Liubei is 4 and 4 with Bhaal, then losing 8 of 9 to Bhaal can only be an anomoly.

Nevertheless, here is the current post with saves vs. Bhaal in which he came up with a masterful plan to overtake me. The game is not over, but i would say that Bhaal now has a massive advantage, mostly because of what he has done in the area of self-trade in a no foreign trade game.

http://www.civ2liga.de/thread.php?threadid=2294&boardid=4&styleid=6