For my next project...

[curtsibling]

US/Euro Battles against Barbary Pirates, and I think the Russo/Japanese war (as suggested by Von Bert) is a good one too!

[Boco]

Thanks much for the replies! Russo-Japanese war is a good topic. Tech, didn't you already work on something with this?

@Agri, I'm sorry, but I'm pretty certain that I couldn't design a redux to Red Front that would meet expectations. Those are very big shoes to fill! I also have doubts that I could make it better by making it bigger.

But let's take a step back to something Fairline mentioned. What kind of formula do you like best in a scenario? Desperately defending against all odds, perhaps coupled with a turn-the-tables offensive? Building an empire? Race against time? Rescue the besieged? Carefully crafted blitz? Building the invincible force, or making do on a shoestring? Has WWII been exhausted? What thrills you, bores you?

What do you like to see about city management in a ToT scenario? How important is the tech tree? Trade?

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Boco
Thanks much for the replies! Russo-Japanese war is a good topic. Tech, didn't you already work on something with this?

No. It's just something on my wish list.

What kind of formula do you like best in a scenario? Desperately defending against all odds, perhaps coupled with a turn-the-tables offensive? Building an empire? Rescue the besieged? Carefully crafted blitz? Building the invincible force, or making do on a shoestring?

All scenarios are a race against time in some way. I like defense followed by a counter-attack.

Has WWII been exhausted? What thrills you, bores you?

No. Many good scenarios involving the Japanese have yet to be made.

What do you like to see about city management in a ToT scenario? How important is the tech tree? Trade?

A good tech tree is great for longer, more strategic scenarios. For scenarios over shorter time frames, they can be used to trigger reinforcements or events. Using tech research for diplomatic purposes is something that hasn't been fully explored. I think there is some potential there with ToT.

IMHO, city management is all about balancing current production against future production. It can be financial or direct production, but it's about maximizing production over the course of the scenario.

Trade is good.

[Exile]

It's all the AI's fault!

Here are 2 good formulas for scenarios that I like;

1.) Start w/a small empire/state. Limited resources, long tech tree. Surrounded by enemies that can be played diplomatically. Quirky geography that requires some planning, and a little luck. Conquer all you can.

2.) Start w/irresistable force and a small state. See how far you can conquer.

Btw, I voted for the the guadalcanal/solomons/Rabaul/New guinea campaign. This has tremendous potential . . . as a ftf duel between humans. a chess match over seas and islands.

[Von Bert]

Hi..

"what kind of game we like ?"

1) Like Exile said.. Start w/a small empire/state. Limited resources, long tech tree.

2) or also wargame style scen. .. (waterloo anyone ?? )many units, smaller tech tree.. but i always feel that a long tech tree is more interesting..as it show also the designer ability to mold up his ideas in a unconventional dimension for his scenario..

3) scenario with high re-playbility.. in wich "random-things" can make each game as new..and as TECUMESH said.. use TECH as diplomatic/reinforcement step rather then just for usual things..

[AGRICOLA]

Posted by Boco
I'm sorry, but I'm pretty certain that I couldn't design a redux to Red Front that would meet expectations. Those are very big shoes to fill! I also have doubts that I could make it better by making it bigger.

It was my fault that my post was not very lucid. Actually, I don't think that Red Front needs to be, or should be, made any bigger. I mentioned Elys' work only because it would eliminate recurring problems with the 'too many units' bug in both Red Front 1.4 and 1.5.

IMO, the first 6 turns of Red Front [summer 1941] are as good as any scen can be. The winter of 1941-42 is also good and barely long enough for the Soviets to organize some kind of a defense.

What follows, however, is not quite as good as the first 12 turns. The German 1942 offensives towards the Caucasus and Stalingrad can be stopped as soon as they get a bridgehead across the Don. The 1943 German attack on the Kursk-Orel salient does not happen. The final defense of Germany consists mainly of static defensive units in cities.

The much more versatile EVENTS language in TOT, coupled with stackable terrain, should be able to remedy what I have listed as shortcomings of the scen.

After doing some test play on island invasions for Patine's EOTRS, it appears that there is no problem in TOT to force German bridgeheads across the Don in 1942 and precipitate a battle for Stalingrad. Similarly, Rostov can be captured and German fast units turned loose towards the Caucasus.

When fairline initiated the idea of a Red Front Redux a couple of years ago, designers were just starting to become familiar with the TOT EVENTS language and a simulation of the 1943 Operation Citadel appeared impossible because the human controlled Soviets could launch their offensive anywhere along a very long front. I think that things have changed since then.

Harry Tuttle and I have posted similar posts on the Civ II Unlimited thread,

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162561

Posted by Harry Tuttle
An increased event memory could mean actual strategic programming to counteract a human player. Cool.

Posted by AGRICOLA
For TOT, if the unit limit could be increased and the events file enlarged, the AI would actually be able to conduct a pretty decent, semi-intelligent and reactive defence against human players.

We seem to be thinking along the same lines in that, with TOT, it is possible to provide a good German strategic defense from the second half of '43 until the end of the scen.

Well, that's about as persuasive as I can be.


NOTE: I'm no designer. My ideas for a semi-intelligent defence come from the EVENTS file in curtsibling's DALEK TYRANNY where I first saw and appreciated the potential of flags and

@IF
A
@AND
B
@THEN
C
@ENDIF

[BillyBud]

I would love to see this scenario made:

Caesar vs Vercingetorix at Alesia

Nowhere in all of gamedom has there ever been a computer game/scenario that has been made on this subject.

Imagine the graphics and the possibilities

[McMonkey]

My gaming preferance is for large maps with interesting terrain for tactical battles. It is best to build up an empire from a small base. I do not like to be rushed too much as I like to build up defences and organize my armies while enjoying the empire I have carved out!

Often scenarios have too many units at the start and it is very confusing to know what to do. This often puts me off a scenario!

My all time favorite scenario was Hellas which was a real challenge. I altered the terrain to suit my taste and added Feirline units tool. The game was just about perfect for me. I played as Corinth and build up a large trading empire in Sicily, Apulia and the Aegean. Throughout the game all the major city states remained powerful and I never captured an enemy capital but that was part of the challenge!

Basically it is all about the challenge and I sometimes let an enemy survive abd recover to keep the game interesting! I do not always need to conquer every city to have fun!

I still want to see Burma though!

[Stefan Härtel]

Originally posted by BillyBud
I would love to see this scenario made:

Caesar vs Vercingetorix at Alesia

Nowhere in all of gamedom has there ever been a computer game/scenario that has been made on this subject.

Imagine the graphics and the possibilities

That's not quite right- a scenario in the original Age of Empires expansion (Rise of Rome) dealt with that battle. It was a damn hard nut, too.

[Case]

I flipped a coin and ended up voting for Barbary pirates over race to Baku.

As much as I'd like to see a scenario on Galipoli or the South West Pacific Theatre of WW2 it's simply not possible to model these campaigns within Civ 2 IMO. While Galipoli is doable but hard, the Pacific Theatre of WW2 is almost impossible given that the actual fighting only ever took place in tiny areas seperated by large areas of jungle. As a result, any attempt to model this in Civ 2 would lead to attacks on bases of a few squares size after long and boring treks across vitual wastelands.

[Boco]

I was considering a series of mini-maps containing the SW Pac hot spots, linked by an intervening transit map to a strategic map. Still, it would be a major challenge to make it work.

[Exile]

A different way of looking at this?

The AI is incapable of running a land/sea/air campaign.

No argument.

A human-to-human duel in a solomons campaign IS do-able however. The Civ2 engine has the capability to mimic this one pretty well, actually.

I actually started one once (lost it in a HD crash). What put me off was the problem of night/day fighting, which, in the solomons, was so crucial to tactics, operations, AND strategy. Doing a batch file changeover for night/day every turn or two just doesn't seem practical.

The Diadochi idea isn't bad.

[Cyrion]

I voted for the source of the Nile!

But honestly I would like any other of your list, especially Alesia!

[BillyBud]

Originally posted by Stefan Härtel


That's not quite right- a scenario in the original Age of Empires expansion (Rise of Rome) dealt with that battle. It was a damn hard nut, too.

Thanks for the heads up

I just don't remember it being there.

I have the expansion, but it's been years since I played it. I'll have to check it out.

[Stefan Härtel]

I could be unfair and say it's forgettable- but it's fun.