Looking for beta testers for El Aurens v2

[Boco]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
There really is nothing else worthwhile for them to build at the start of the scen, especially as 100% of accumulated shields can always be switched to a unit or another improvement that becomes available.

Oops! During alpha testing I got tired of the switch penalty dialog, so I eliminated it. It was my original intention to restore it, but I'll take your advice for that.

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
I suspected that, north of Gaza, things get tough. However on Turn 2, a Cruiser and a Monitor eliminated the protective minefield and destroyed the 4-unit garrison in Romani, and returned to the shipyard in Port Said for repairs.

Occasionally this strategy leaves flotillas stranded weak next to Romani, but if you're sensitive to this, its a good strategy. Let me know what you think of mines and U-Boats as you progress. I'd also like to get your ideas on transports, once you've gotten into Palestine and Syria. I've already seen that a last minute change that I made tends to allow the French Cruiser by Beirut to survive. I'll be fixing that.

Originally posted by AGRICOLA It is my intention to first eliminate the garrisons in all 6 Sinai cities and then capture them starting with the one farthest from the British. Designers have been known to use the capture of a city nearest the enemy to trigger the spawning of hostiles in more distant cities.
I would like another cruiser ASAP because the 4 coastal cities are ideal targets for bombardment. In addition, I am curious to see if and how the AI will attempt to re-garrison its cities.

That's a good test! I'd like to see how the AI handles this. I suspect it won't, so I'll need to readjust slightly. Not to negate this strategy, but to avoid cities staying devoid of even a weak defender for months on end. One thing, though, many of these defenders are weak enough for cavalry to attack. It's a good opportunity to get vets, which help the Gaza push.

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
That would be very nice but it was not my intention to cause you additional work after the monumental amount you have put into EAII.

Monumental amount of hype, you mean.

Originally posted by AGRICOLA

Here are the paths:
Main TOT folder..........C:\Program Files\A TOT
Original, Fantasy, Sound etc. are sub-folders in A TOT

All downloaded EAII files are in
C:\Documents and Settings\JAS\Desktop\A EL AURENS

P.S. The 'A' prefixes are so that the TOT and EL AURENS folders are listed first when when Program Files and Desktop are opened.

Thanks, I can work on that starting midweek.

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Yes, I have received all your e-mails. Your saves are very interesting. Apparently I'm either more aggressive than you or I've goofed monumentally in moving any unit that could drive, walk, crawl or swim from the OOB to the NE and Darfur maps on Turn 1 and put them to work.

This could be an excellent idea! I deliberately left some of those understrength units linked to Egypt to see whether they could help, but I didn't test the strategy. Many understrength troops were in Egypt at the time. This should reduce the Sanussi threat, but more important, get rid of the Elvis's (Elva's for female?). Not sure its a benefit in Darfur, though. Are you thinking of rushing the Cooks Steamers in Khartoum and Wadi Halfa, or leaving it them to develop unrushed? That's another option that I didn't test as a strategy.

Thanks for the feedback! Do you want any other alpha test save files? I just noted your email, so if any of these questions are answered in your yet unread zip, don't bother replying again.

[AGRICOLA]

Originally posted by Boco
I've already seen that a last minute change that I made tends to allow the French Cruiser by Beirut to survive. I'll be fixing that.

In a number of tests of ending Turn 1, the immobilized Cruiser off Beirut was deep-sixed every time. I did a bit of quiet cussing about getting stuck with an immobile ship and a 100 point penalty.

I wonder if the scoring system for the scen is entirely fair. The part that bothers me is the -100 points for each unit lost, regardless of whether it was a 120 shield Engineering unit or a platoon of Scouts worth 10 shields.

As it is probably impractical to keep track of the shield value of lost units, might it be possible to also give a bonus of +50 points for each enemy unit killed?

As it now stands, certain strategies may be sound militarily but scoring disasters. I was going to forget about the Darfur until it was suggested that ". . . . that El Fasher and Bir Hakim are worth a lot of points just because of their wonders . . . . ". Actually, if it costs more than 2 extra lost units to capture and hold the Darfur, going in there will have been a bad bargain.

In a similar vein, at the start of the scen, Siwa Oasis and some other places can definitely be defended and held but this does entail the sacrifice of some Scouts. Nevertheless, holding these locales is the smart military move despite the scoring penalty.

Originally posted by Boco
I'd like to see how the AI handles this. I suspect it won't, so I'll need to readjust slightly. Not to negate this strategy, but to avoid cities staying devoid of even a weak defender for months on end. One thing, though, many of these defenders are weak enough for cavalry to attack. It's a good opportunity to get vets, which help the Gaza push.

By the start of Turn 3, Romani had a new garrison of 2 camel jockeys. I have no idea how long or at what rate the Ottomans can contiue to generate replacements in the Sinai. Unfortunately, the chances of good British units [A/D > 10/10] becoming vets by killing A/D=1/0 tribesmen are exceedingly slim.

[Boco]

I think I'd like to create/revise some CreateUnit (CU) events to place weak Turk regulars in the Sinai cities at intervals. At least they can make some vets out of your cav.

As for the inevitable loss of units on turn 1, you can partly console yourself that its a level playing field. Everyone incurs the same 'penalty'

I agree with you about the unfairness of losing equal points for a brigade of infantry or a company of scouts. Using an internal scoring system, we're stuck with that. The scoring penalty can be adjusted, perhaps substantially, but I do want the player to face some restraints. No one wanted a redux of the Western Front over here, and Murray lost his job when he was going in that direction.

Unfortunately, I can't put in points for units killed unless I set up an external scorecard. If it's important, I can write an Excel file that reads a SAV file for casualties and a rules file for costs. Unfortunately that has a high cost: you would have to create a SAV file, switch to Excel and click a button each time you wanted to get a score.

Have you faced anything other than Ikhawan in Siwa?

[AGRICOLA]

Have you faced anything other than Ikhawan in Siwa?

I don't know for sure but I think there was some kind of unsuccessful attack at the beginning of Turn 3. However, at the same time, an Anwar Camp stacked with two Gebirgshaubitze appeared ouside the oasis. A British Camel Arty arrived in the oasis and eliminated the Adwar Camp but had insufficient movement to tackle the howies. A couple of Scouts and a Recce Flight also moved into the oasis. The following turn the 2 Gebirgshaubitze combined to kill the Guard unit in the oasis. In turn, the surviving Gebirgshaubitz was killed by the Recce Flight.

If units are available and if time permits, I wonder if it might be an idea to pillage stackable terrain around exposed outposts.

Oops! During alpha testing I got tired of the switch penalty dialog, so I eliminated it.

It might have been simpler to open the GAME/CITY REPORT OPTIONS pulldown and uncheck "Warn when changing production will cost shields.".

Do you want any other alpha test save files?

Yes, by all means, but only after I have sent you mine as the test progresses. To make it a fair test, I should not be influenced or guided by your strategy and tactics. So, once I've sent you a set of saves, I will be dying of curiosity to see how things went in your corresponding saves.

The scoring system doesn't particularly concern me except that I consider inexpensive Scouts to be expendable and very useful in absorbing enemy attacks. Inevitably, a lot of them are going to be wiped out. Oh well!

[curtsibling]

CIV2 News item has been added for this scenario playtest!

http://apolyton.net/civgroups/news.php?s=&civgroupid=55

[Boco]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
I don't know for sure but I think there was some kind of unsuccessful attack at the beginning of Turn 3. However, at the same time, an Anwar Camp stacked with two Gebirgshaubitze appeared ouside the oasis. A British Camel Arty arrived in the oasis and eliminated the Adwar Camp but had insufficient movement to tackle the howies. A couple of Scouts and a Recce Flight also moved into the oasis. The following turn the 2 Gebirgshaubitze combined to kill the Guard unit in the oasis. In turn, the surviving Gebirgshaubitz was killed by the Recce Flight.

This is a effective aggressive strategy. It loses less territory and costs you no more points than the historical events would have. Only one problem...I have some key beneficial events triggered by the retaking of Siwa. I'll need to revise something here. I don't want to negate your strategy, but you just took away a very convenient trigger.

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
If units are available and if time permits, I wonder if it might be an idea to pillage stackable terrain around exposed outposts.

I think you'll see an opportunity. You just need to do it when counterattacking units aren't around.

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Yes, by all means, but only after I have sent you mine as the test progresses. To make it a fair test, I should not be influenced or guided by your strategy and tactics. So, once I've sent you a set of saves, I will be dying of curiosity to see how things went in your corresponding saves.

I'll zip them up and send them, then. Hopefully it's one continuous test.

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
The scoring system doesn't particularly concern me except that I consider inexpensive Scouts to be expendable and very useful in absorbing enemy attacks. Inevitably, a lot of them are going to be wiped out. Oh well!

The current system will concern you greatly, then. Btw, one rationale about scouts. Throwing them into long shot situations wasn't a viable strategy with the politics of the time. Most of these scouts came from Egyptian paramilitary forces. The Commissioners of Egypt were keenly sensitive about not exposing them to significant danger for two reasons. They often evaporated when left unsupported before any Sanussis, Bedouins, or Turks. Recruitment was difficult at best, and would be harder still if it was thought that these scouts would be treated like cannon fodder. I'm willing to tweak the KIA penalty a lot, but unlikely to eliminate it. How do you feel about an external system based on Excel, which can be highly tailored to the type of unit lost, at the expense of convenience?

[Boco]

Originally posted by curtsibling
CIV2 News item has been added for this scenario playtest!

http://apolyton.net/civgroups/news.php?s=&civgroupid=55

Nice work there CS! That's a great news page! Hopefully EAv2 can live up to at least a little of your hype!

[curtsibling]

My pleasure!

PS
The hype is well deserved!

[AGRICOLA]

Originally posted by Boco
Only one problem...I have some key beneficial events triggered by the retaking of Siwa. I'll need to revise something here. I don't want to negate your strategy, but you just took away a very convenient trigger.

I suspect that my taking a chance and airlifting the NZ Mounted Rifles to Sollum during Turn 1 and then holding the city rather than losing it changed what the AI subsequently did around Siwa. The oasis was not attacked until Turn 3 when it was well garrisoned.

Sorry about that one, but I do appreciate the extreme difficulty a designer has in trying to anticipate what will happen and designing events appropriately. Too bad about the 'key beneficial events', but I can't backtrack because, on Turn 5, the British managed to boot the Turks out of the Jaghbub Oasis.

How many demerits do I get for acquiring the 'key beneficial events' in some 'inexplicable' fashion that does not involve evacuating Siwa? That would let the scen play out like you intended.

[AGRICOLA]

Well, that was easy.

The British got the Siwa's Capture tech.

The Solar Plant was unnecessary. Cairo had just completed building one and gotten rid of its ancient Power Plant [locally referred to as Big Smokey], thereby eliminating a helluva lot of pollution before it caused any problems.

The Sanussis got their 2 starving, dejected desert wanderers.

No muss, no fuss, no bother. The Siwa's Capture tech looks like a dead end anyway.

I hope that this puts the scen back on its intended track.

[Boco]

Did you lose any units capturing Jaghbub? If not, then I'm going to defend it better. It really should represent a Pyrrhic victory, since the Brits had no need for it, and it was the center of Sanussi resistance.

Yep, its the tech with the Solar Plant that Siwa yields. Its an unannounced benefit, since you shouldn't be able to always predict when you're going to crack a spy ring. Getting the tech is important, since it affects your beaker cost to discover the next tech, and EA is calibrated kinda carefully in that regard. Most techs given by events come from CityTaken by human triggers. Triggers that give techs to the Allies during the AI turn tend to muck up your calculations about how many beakers are needed to get the next tech. IIRC, the Sanussis also lose their ability to make Ikhawan, but if you're going be so aggressive, you need a handicap. That may be a general model that I use to make it tough for whizzes without making it impossible for rookies.

Don't sweat the thwarted Siwa trigger. I'll just have to come up with another trick. Reinforcing Sollum didn't affect Siwa. I was trying to mimic the historical Sanussi pace and not take Siwa until turn 3. Silly AI couldn't take it without the two Gebirgshaubitz units. I may make it fall earlier. That will still allow you to zip in there and retake it at your current schedule.

Btw, the Gebirgshaubitz is a unit that I may strengthen, depending on your later encounters with them.

[AGRICOLA]

Did you lose any units capturing Jaghbub? If not, then I'm going to defend it better. It really should represent a Pyrrhic victory, since the Brits had no need for it, and it was the center of Sanussi resistance.

No, but the vet Camel Arty didn't have much red showing when the battle was over. However, if it had failed, there was a Recce Flight, a Ford Armored Car and a Camel Corps Bn for additional attacks. The Recce Flight I don't really care about very much as I'm trying to use them up before they are hauled off to Greece.

Getting the tech is important, since it affects your beaker cost to discover the next tech, and EA is calibrated kinda carefully in that regard.

I was wondering when the happy time would end. I took your recommendation about pushing research as much as possible and was rewarded with 2 discoveries on Turns 3 and 5 while operating at a maintainable 30% science rate. That is clearly not going to happen again unless I boost the science rate. Your TIPS file provides an incredible amount of guidance for that kind of decision if one studies it in detail.

[Patine]

Say, Boco, if I may ask, how does your OOB map actually work? I mean, with rectangular spaces and city names outside cities and such? I can't figure it out.

[AGRICOLA]

If that is all that you can't figure out in EAII, you are doing fantastically well.

Boco has produced a scen that is intricate, interlocked beyond belief, and full of enough design tricks to confuse everyone.

This one is a classic, no question about it . . . . . and I haven't even begun the Arab revolt or tried to enter Palestine, the ultimate chamber of horrors.

[Patine]

No, I must be only starting to be confused. I've only played one turn so far before stopping to consider my strategy. I was just wondering about that OOB map.