The Vietnam War development thread

[McMonkey]

I am still short of a few good Vietnam era units. If anyone has any decent ones that match the ones on the list then please post them. Good quality mods would be welcome or units that I could mod would be better than nothing.
I have attached an image with a list of the units I am currently thinking of including. Then I will post an image with what I have got so far.
Quick question. If I post a Units template that is in development and it does not have signatures on it, is this stepping on anyones toes? Thought I better ask first. The thing is I am still playing around with the units and it is very time consuming swapping sigs about all the time. I will leave it until tommorow and see what the concensus is!

Note: I could not update attachment so I have posted it again underneath Von Berts post!

[Von Bert]

I cant imagine anything missing.. if not a crazy-Marlon Brando in the jungle..
then maybe those civilian "refugees" running from war..
and aussie ? too few maybe..

for the rest ..for my taste is definitive..
go on with your good job !

[McMonkey]

Reattachment

Take 2 and ACTION!

[McMonkey]

Thanks VB!
I like the sound of a Colonel Kurtz unit! Maybe an event could prompt the player to send a special forces unit into Cambodia and hunt him down and 'terminate the Colonels command. Terminate with extreme prejudice!'

As soon as I have sorted out the signatures I will post the units I have so far.

[McMonkey]

Units

I have attached a PNG file of the units I have so far. There are a couple of gaps that need filling first off. If anyone wants to have a go at making any of the missing units or can improve on the ones with the coloured dots on them then please do.

Most of the units with coloured dots are not singled out because I don't like them. They are either a bit dated or do not seem to fit with the others. No offence is intended to the creators!!!

I have tried to add on the signatures of most of the creators but some of them are from the PS days (pre signature). If anyone recognises work that needs a sig let me know and I will add it.

For the above reason I would advise anyone using the above images to note that the signatures may be incorrect in some cases!!!

DS is my signature for units I have modified beyond all recognition. I would like replacements for ALL my units!!!
Mod = Minor modifications of others work (mainly Fairline!)

If anyone can help then let me know

[McMonkey]

Long explaination

Sorry about the length of this post. I just wanted to explain what I am looking for before I have to cook dinner!

Unit 1: Peasant - I quite like this one but would like a realy funky new Vietnames peasant!
Unit 7: Australian - Again I like this unit but was looking for an australian with a olive drab uniform and a bush hat as opposed to WWII style headgear!
Unit 8: I Fairlines mortar and just need someone to make the crew look like US infantry.
Unit 9: I think Techs 105mm fits the bill. Can anyone add a crew?
Unit 10: More classic fairline. I need a 175mm Long Tom though, prefferably one that matches the other armour.
Unit 13: Can anyone add a Browning MG turret and two M60 shields to make this a M113 MICV.
Unit 18: Has anyone got a US truck. I think this one is a Britsh WWII model!
Unit 20: This Montagnard is some sort of Arfican levy! I need something from the Highlands of the Nam!
Units 21-23: These ARVN (Inf/Marine/Ranger) need to be of slighter stature with relevent helmets and weapons.
Unit 24: My very poor attempt at a sensor that was dropped from aircraft along th Ho Chi Minh trail.
Units 29-32: Examples of the MRF ships I am looking for can be found at the begining of this thread. None of these fit the bill!
Unit 33: My poor attempt at a conversion. Should be a Dakota with miniguns along its portside!
Unit 47: I quite like this one but it needs some polishing!
Unit 48: NVA mortar. Likewise, would be good if it matched the other NVA. Mortar by Tech.
Unit 64: PT-76 Amphibious Tank. I have seen one before but I need good one for the NVA!
Unit 71: Nothing wrong with the unit, I was looking for an earlier LVTP5 used by the USMC.
Unit 72: Stolen from Patines Korea scn. What I need is a hardass Nung mercinary! (I can post pics if anyone wants to have a go!)
Unit 76: This Hovercraft is almost there. Either needs a bit of polish or a new attempt (see pic on page 1 or 2)
Unit 80: I like these refugees. The guy doesent have any features. I may be able to fix this one myself.
Re: Helicopters. Most of these would just about doo but they are a bit of a mixture. Some shiny new ones would be cool, it is Vietnam after all.

Said it was a long post! Any efforts would be much appreciated!

[Case]

Re: Long explaination

Originally posted by Werd100
Unit 7: Australian - Again I like this unit but was looking for an australian with a olive drab uniform and a bush hat as opposed to WWII style headgear!

Yeah, Australian soldiers only wore the slouch hat on formal occasions such as parades. The US-style bush hat was worn during operations. Australian soldiers very rarely wore helmets in Vietnam but when they did they wore the standard US helmet.

[GhostOfDisco]

On the battleship - the only BBs used in the Vietnam War were Iowa-class, so if you want historical accuracy, a graphics of that ship would be best. Nemo made a Iowa graphic (you can see it here), and from my experience using it in the US Civil War 2013 scenario, it seems to do pretty well when placed alongside more "modern" ship graphics. (Does anyone know if there's a better Iowa-class BB graphic out there?)

[McMonkey]

Re: Re: Long explaination

Yeah, Australian soldiers only wore the slouch hat on formal occasions such as parades. The US-style bush hat was worn during operations. Australian soldiers very rarely wore helmets in Vietnam but when they did they wore the standard US helmet. [/QUOTE]

I picked up the complete collection of Nam The Vietnam Experience 1965 - 1975, a magazine collection from the late 80s, which has been invaluable in developing this game!

In there is a hole section about the Australian involvement with some excellent photos of the Aussies all in bush hats. I intend to create them through events in Phuoc Tuy province around Vung Tau and hope to squeeze in the Battle of Long Tan!

[McMonkey]

GoD, I hope you don't mind me calling you that heavenly father

I just picked the first decent BB I could find but Nemo's Iowa Class looks much more in keeping, thanks for the tip off.

As I don't like too many house rules and I don't want BB's sailing up the rivers I have decided to create a few static BB's off shore. I know the numbers may not be accurate but it will have the effect I am looking for!

These Battleships will then have a reoccuring event genorating artillery shells on their grid ref to hurl at any VC foolish enough to come within range. I think I will locate them near US enclaves like Da Nang, Hue and Nha Trang to beef up their defences against a quite hostile NVA later in the game!

[Case]

Re: Re: Re: Long explaination

Originally posted by Werd100
In there is a hole section about the Australian involvement with some excellent photos of the Aussies all in bush hats. I intend to create them through events in Phuoc Tuy province around Vung Tau and hope to squeeze in the Battle of Long Tan!

It's worth noting that the first Australian Army unit to be sent to Vietnam was an infantry battalion which was attached to the US 173rd Airborne Brigade. Due to incompatabilities between Australian and US tactics and equipment this battalion was replaced by a two-battalion Australian 'task force' after one year and the task force was eventually expanded to a full combined-arms brigade. While the 1st Australian Task Force mainly operated in Phuoc Tuy it also operated in neigbouring provinces at times.

[McMonkey]

Thanks Case

I think I will need to compromise accuracy in some places to avoid over complicating the game. I do however want to try and differentiate between the main free world units who all had different methods.
The US we all know about, technology and air power will play a major role, especially air mobility.
The Koreans were ruthlessly efficient in securing the areas around Qui Nhon, Nha Trang and Cam Ranh and will be the solid link between the Marines in the north and US/ARVN armies in the south.
The ARVN will be numerous yet inefficient and inept at launching offensive operations.
The Australians will need to be more like the Koreans with a slightly more 'hearts and minds' approach although I am not sure how to represent this in the game. I believe their tactics were closer to those used by the British (and commonwealth?) so succesfully in Malaysia.

[Patine]

There were also Taiwanese and Thais among the Free World Allies, but I'm not sure how many or how important they were in the war.

[Case]

Originally posted by Werd100
The Australians will need to be more like the Koreans with a slightly more 'hearts and minds' approach although I am not sure how to represent this in the game. I believe their tactics were closer to those used by the British (and commonwealth?) so succesfully in Malaysia.

From what I've read, the Koreans didn't put much effort into civil action and weren't well regarded by the civilians in their area of responsibility.

The common claim that the Australian Army had a great civil action program is a myth. According to the Australian official history of the war, the Australian task force put very little emphasis on civil affairs and never really controled its province.

The main differences between the Australian Army and US Army were:
* the Australians were more cautious and emphasised small stealthy patrols over larger operations (which may or may not have been more effective than US tactics - the jury is still out)
* as Australians typically deployed to Vietnam as part of their larger unit the Australian task force didn't suffer the gradual deteriation in proficiency which affected the US Army due to its policy of individual rotations.

Originally posted by Patine
There were also Taiwanese and Thais among the Free World Allies, but I'm not sure how many or how important they were in the war.

While Taiwan offered to send troops this offer was turned down as it was feared that it could bring China into the war. Thailand sent a regiment which was later expanded to a small division. For the record, New Zealand sent two rifle companies, a SAS platoon and an artillery battery which were attached to Australian units. The Phillipines sent an engineer battalion.

[McMonkey]

Case

I agree that the Koreans were not the peasants best friends. From what I can gather a lot of their methods would be considered brutal by western standards but they were good fighters and the VC were very wary of them.

Regarding the Australians. I have not researched this in much depth so I concede that it may well be a myth. Probably a lot of what I have read about the Vietnam war is myth and it is slightly one sided, being written almost exclusively by westerners.

In my game I have no intention of giving the player an easy ride and letting Rambo wipe out the VC! I have a lot of respect for the revolutionary armies created by Ho Chi Minh and Vo Nguyen Giap and the strength and courage of the Vietnamese people in their long struggle against colonial oppression! Long live the revolution

The Kiwis will have to be assumed to be working with the Australians and the troops from Thailand and the Phillipines will just have to be created in the imagination as I don't really want to use a unit slot on them. Also I have never heard about any actions these asian allies were involved in, not that I wish to belittle their envolvement!

I have not been able to do much work on the game over the past few days as snow has brought the UK juddering to a halt (pathetic!!!) and I seem to be at work 24hrs. I hope tonight will be quiet so I can get the tech tree done, I may try Eivinds template to speed things up!