The Vietnam War development thread

[Cyrion]

Re: Troop carrying chopper

Originally posted by Werd100
HOW! I am impressed
I have just been testing out the Ju52 transport and it is a work of genius!

Yes, I think it's brilliant too! I think I saw it in another scen before Norway but can't remember where (a spanish scen?? )...

I think I will stick with the units I already have and make this unit a heavy lift chopper such as a Chinook or Sky Crane that can be used to fly in Mortars and Artillery. That is so cool!!!

Excellent! Your scenario sounds more than promising!

And regarding the folder question: are you sure you saved at the right place??

[fairline]

Re: Re: Troop carrying chopper

Originally posted by Cyrion
Yes, I think it's brilliant too! I think I saw it in another scen before Norway but can't remember where (a spanish scen?? )...

Pablostuka used it in his Spanish Civil War and Morrocco scenarios, and Nemo had gliderborne infantry in Second Front.

[Case]

Originally posted by Werd100
Could you explain a bit more about: "Alternetly, you could set up a system where the US 'buys' units with the cost being increased discontent."
It sound interesting but how would it work, roughly speaking.

You could have some kind of system where the US player has a 'defence department' unit which attacks units from a spare civ (called, for example, 'manpower') triggering an event which deducts money or generates protestors and creates whichever 'manpower' unit was attacked somewhere on the map. I think that this was used in one of the previous Vietnam War scenarios, though I can't remember which one.

[Case]

...and I stole the idea to add a troop carrying glider to my 'Battle for Australia' scenario.

[Michael Daumen]

Just a dumb question, but are you planning this as a straight battle for conquest? Here's an idea I had, at least for the Americans: make it their goal to accumulate X in "wealth" (call it goodwill or whatever). Then the player retires and check on their progress vis-a-vis VC conquests.

Here are the advantages I thought of:

-monetary penalties if the US attacks civilians and neutral countries, as well as North Vietnamese cities
-the US player has to weigh sacrificing goodwill to rush-build more units


Next, I would have the Americans inhabit only bases. Both the Viet Cong and the South Vietnamese civs will be hostile (so a text message doesn't come up). Include a monetary penalty if an American kills an ARVN unit.

Then, make a VC terrorist unit (Civilian), and an identical ARVN caravan unit (Civi1ian) - the both should seek out American bases, and there is an incentive to let these units approach your cities before identifying them.

The only wrinkle is having ARVN units attacking Americans. Perhaps this can be fixed with impassable terrain, or maybe the Southern civ has no soldiers and must rely entirely on the US for protection.

Further, I would make the "gas for food" change Second Front did, and have US units be settlers. Trade becomes News (tech advances), PX (luxuries for the bases, if necessary), and Goodwill ($).

I'd love to have your map, if only to try this mechanic myself....

[McMonkey]

Taking stock

Thanks for the input guys
I just need to take stock and work out where we are at!
There have been some excellent suggestions and a lot of them will probably make it into the final game.
What I really intend is a bloody good war game with choppers, napalm and Grunts! I want it to be as realistic as the game engine allows while remaining playable, I will always go for fun over fact! I want to create an atmosphere that takes the player back to the 60's and captures the Vietnam era vibe.
The intention of the anti war movement and other ideas is to add colour to the game. What I will probably do is combine elements of all these ideas to add another dimension to the game without taking it over. A friend at work suggested a Woodstock tech or wonder that would trigger a Jimi Hendix track! That would add a bit of fun to the serious business of wasting Victor Charlie on the Cambodian border!

Cyrion - Thanks for the encouragement man! I have thoroughly checked the folders and the save game is there but not when you look using Load game in ToT! Could it be because I built the map with normal CivII map editor and brought it straight over? Other saved games work OK!

Case - I like the idea and will play around with it when I start testing the game. I think it may work for one or two unit types but be too complicated to work on all units. This could be used for special units only. Did you ever play the Byzantine Komenani scenario where your recruits had to get from the provinces to training centres to be transformed into military units? This scenario made me realise there was a lot more potential left in CivII than is first apparent.

Michael - I do not intend a out and out game of conquest, hence the unreachable Communist bases in Cambodia and Laos, but I do intend it to be a war game. I am trying to work a way out of judging sucess as the traditional method of capturing the enemy capital is not an option. I do not want to make it too abstract as it will turn off the casual player.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is a good idea, but I think it may be too involved for this scenario! It reminds me a bit of Kobiyashi's business scenario, which I am afraid to say I have never played as it looked too complicated and alien to just pick up and play! Shame on me!!!

I think it is best to keep the ARVN as a loyal ally, desperately trying to fend off the Communists with the US making the plays militarily.

You are welcome to the map. Do you know how I can send it? I tried attaching it to this post but message said 'no dice!'.
Also I still haven't worked out the problem with my saved games. Could it be a probem with the map I used being straight from MGE? It seems fine when I open it in ToT and add cities. HEEEEEEEEEEELP!!!!!

[Cyrion]

Re: Taking stock

Originally posted by Werd100

Cyrion - Thanks for the encouragement man! I have thoroughly checked the folders and the save game is there but not when you look using Load game in ToT! Could it be because I built the map with normal CivII map editor and brought it straight over? Other saved games work OK!

that should not be a problem, as I just experienced while doing exactly the same: creating a ToT scen from a MPGE developed map!

Try again, and pay attention to where your game is saved when you use "save as" (no, I don't think you're stupid, but maybe you are as easily distracted as I can be, and so might have missed something! )

[McMonkey]

Right, lets get this sorted! Step by step!
- I have just loaded my map and stareted a game then saved it as a scenario and as a saved game in the main ToT file.
- Interestingly I tried Importing a map in the Map dropdown option and it turned Vietnam into some twisted alien underwater hellscape with giant oysters and dinosaurs!?!
- I have then gone to load game and found the save game this time but when I load it it has the original graphics and units.
- When I start it as a scenario it does the same (original graphics).
- When I repeat the process and save the game into my Vietnam scenario both the save and scenario dissapear again!!!
-So it seems as if it only works when I save it into the main folder but when I reload the graphics are screwed!

Bear in mind I do not mind being patronized here as I know I am doing something dumb!!!

- The only place that has original graphics is the main ToT folder.
- However when I open the map in Original and start editing it it uses my Graphics gif! WTF!!!

I can see that I have got something mixed up with the folders but I cannot work it out logically. Someone help before I run screaming back to ToT! I don't want to randomly swapping files about until I get it right as I will get myself in a mess I will never sort out!

Thanks in anticipation of your helf.

[Cyrion]

Ok, I'll try to help

Here is something that should work (as I do it at the same time I write just to make sure )

1) Launch ToT and Start a Single Player Game

2) Original Game

3) Start on Pre-made World : in the opening window, select your own Vietnam map

4) Choose the level (not important at the moment), the number of civ (7, you can always destroy some later), the level of Barb activity you desire, Standard or Customize rules (as you wish; in your case that would be customize as Vietnam isn't round but flat, and you don't want to restart eleminated players), Gender and your tribe of choice (which you can change later anyway), name, city style

5) Under Cheat menu, select Toggle cheat mode (yes)

6) Under Cheat menu, select Save as Scenario: a window opens, and that's where you have to pay attention: under your main ToT folder, go to scenario sub-folder, and in it create your own scenario folder (Call it Vietnam or whatever) and in this folder save your scen with the name you want

7) put in this folder the graphics and rules you want for your scen

8) and then go back to the beginning, and use Begin a scenario, and choose this one

9) save your game in your newly created folder and then work from this save: it works perfectly well!

if you did this and it didn't work, then I'm lost...

in fact, all your scen related files should be in your scenario subfolder

[McMonkey]

SORTED! Phew. Thanks mate. You have saved me bacon! I had knoted the rope and everything!!!

I am not entirely sure what was wrong before as I was doing exactly the same thing. But I suspended my disbelief and followed it through again and it has worked.

Relieved waffle (feel free to ignore!):
ToT would not read it from my folder which was called VIETNAM v1.0 and was in the main ToT folder. Maybe it did not like it because of its name? Also when I tried your instructions I saved it in a file called Nam stored in a one folder called Scenario and another called Scenarios and it loaded from both so I am baffled.
I just moved that VIETNAM v1.0 s folder to the Scenarios folder and tried again and it still does not work!?!

Never mind, the main thing is I can get on with the game now, thanks Cyrion. Just need to find and delete all these test saves and scenarios now!

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by Werd100
ToT would not read it from my folder which was called VIETNAM v1.0 and was in the main ToT folder. Maybe it did not like it because of its name? Also when I tried your instructions I saved it in a file called Nam stored in a one folder called Scenario and another called Scenarios and it loaded from both so I am baffled.

No "punctuation" in folder names, mate!

And the folder directly in your main ToT folder is supposed to be named "scenario" (no "s")

Glad to have been of help, now I can go and sleep peacefully!

[AGRICOLA]

I hope no designer has to disdainfully point out a pathetic fallacy in my thinking, but why does anything have to be put in the TOT folder or one of its subfolders?

I have always played, saved, and modified MGE and TOT games and scens in a desktop folder. For scens, as long as all files that are different from those in the MGE or TOT folder [modified or new graphics or text] are in the desktop folder, everything works perfectly.

Just for the hell of it, try moving the entire development folder to desktop where it is much more easily accessed than going through My Computer/Local Drive C:/Program Files/TOT/Development Folder.

[Boco]

The template batch file many designers use to install DLL and ToT dialog gfx assumes that the scenario is in a folder that shares a parent folder with the "Original" folder. If you're willing to dispense with the batch files, then I see no restriction.

It's far less a matter of disdain, than of inability to be clever enough to figure out how to accomodate you.

[AGRICOLA]

Thanks Boco. I think I get the picture.

MGE scens as well as TOT scens that don't use batch files can be developed in any folder.

TOT scens that use batch files have to be developed in a folder located within the main TOT folder.

All scens can be played in any folder, provided that all modified text and graphics files as well as necessary ancillary files are in the folder.

[Von Bert]

Im really happy that with a "little help from my friends" WERD100 was able to solve the problem with folders..
and..reading :

I want it to be as realistic as the game engine allows while remaining playable, I will always go for fun over fact!. I want to create an atmosphere that takes the player back to the 60's and captures the Vietnam era vibe.

yeah.. i think you are totally right , with civ2 that's what we can have...

so.. speaking of '60.. vibe.. and atmosphere..

WE WANT MUSIC !!!! WE WANT MUSIC !!!!

at least few seconds.. (too bad CIV dont play mp3 right ?? )
my play list 4 this scenario would be:

- "we gotta get out from this place" (The animals)
- "purple haze" (jimi hendrix)
- "the end" (doors.. for the beginning? )
- "surfin safari" (beach boys... for when a beach-attack will come out..or wagner "The Valkyrie" if u prefer classical)
- "some chinese-rest.music"..for when the day of TET will come..

so.. you bring the music.. and i bring beer and something to smoke.. or the reverse..

well.. sure.. i'm joking..
but some good sounds/music can make a scenario play better..