The Vietnam War development thread

[Von Bert]

Vietnamization ??
another option could be.. at certain time interval (or dictated by flag/events ) MAKE the player run a batch/dos file.. that ll change RULES.txt, making USA infantry much much more expensive.

For the other things "how many tech".. i dunno..

[techumseh]

Werd100, here is a zip of my original "Vietcong!" scenario. It never really worked, for several reasons. The main one was the inability of the FW events to handle the US withdrawal.

I tried use to use "Westmoreland's Workshop" to convert US units into "refugees", "birds" and "cruise ships" but it was an unsatisfactory solution. More importantly, it was impossible to turn off the events creating new US units, so they kept coming and then changing into birds.

ToT may provide the ability to create a workable Vietnam scenario. Best of Luck!

[techumseh]

Zip #2:

[techumseh]

And zip #3:

[McMonkey]

Thanks for the idea VB but I have decided to avoid batch files, multiple rules etc as I would like to finish this scenario soonish and they would probably add another couple of years onto the development time.

The more I think about it the more I am convinced that Leonardos workshop effect + US units becoming obsolete (staggered!) and replaced by ARVN would be the easiest option (and also the best ).

One thing. When a unit becomes obsolete what makes the replacement unit take it over? Is it linked to its stats or something in the tech tree? I guess this will be important if I want the game to work.

If I had to make the ARVN stronger to replace the US then I would need one rules change to bump up the Communists stats too!

@Tecusheh
Thanks for the files. I will see what I can learn from them. 'Birds' What were you smoking that day

[Michael Daumen]

>yoink!<

[Von Bert]

obsolete units ll be sobstituted by..?? mmhhh..
by any other unit available because of tech tree maybe??
then if is HUMAN.. he ll build whatever he wish i suppose.. (that is ur case fro U.s.a. .. ? )
but to be sure better u ll use a "new" ARVN units then maybe.. after Leonardo
this ll also increase the chances that AI build it..
i dunno..
(AH Mr Daumen ! .. im just modding a bit around the graphic of your old MOSCOW -- THE THIRD ROME .. remember it ?
>yoink!<)

ANyway.. weird100.. if u discovered the SEA-CARRRIER-parachute-unit..well.. is a super idea !!!
can be used in many way.. p"
and s what i was looking for... towers, castles, to "guard" borders in my teutonic sceneario..
but .. how to move them just once ??
but with this trick..is possible !
this is super ! i ll make parachute-tower/castle units.. that can be "spread" around towns.. then not-movable.. as they r sea-carrier..
but they still can be attacked (as ship in port ) .. and they can hold air units.. or others.. such for me ll be.. patrols , raiders.. etc..

very nice.. just tried it out a bit now..
but maybe.. the AI ll not attack them.. :S unless.. it has air units too maybe..

batch file ?
"..and they would probably add another couple of years onto the development time. "
i know what u mean... :S :P

[McMonkey]

Von Bert old chap

Glad to hear Teutonic is still going strong. I like the idea about using Castles. If you make them quite expensive it would be a neat trick. You can also reduce the parachute drop range in universal rules so they can only go 3-4 suares so something.
If you give land units attack aircraft ability they can fight your Raiders. I suppose they can attack the castles anyway as they are not on a sea square!

I don't know if I invented the 'Parachute Carrier', or as I like to call it Heavy Lift Helicopter, but I have never seen it before so I was quite chuffed with myself. It was mainly a case of adapting the Ju52 idea from Eivinds Norwegian scn, which I would not have thought of quickly!

Re: Vietnamization
I know when a unit is obsolete you can no longer choose to build it and that during a game of original Civ2 Leonardos Workshop would upgrade all Legions and Horsemen etc to Dragoons and Musketeers. I will need to do a proper test to se how to adapt this to my game. I have a few units I can do away with and use to get this working!

The main reason I do not use batch files is that I want to keep this scenario simple. In my WWII game I had about 10 different rules files and when I wanted to change a unit stat I had to edit all ten files which was a royal pain in the ass! Batch files would seem to me like more of the same! I think this scenario will be complicated enough as it is

Cheers

PS Anyone got any info on exactly what makes an obsolete unit get replaced?

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Werd100

I don't know if I invented the 'Parachute Carrier', or as I like to call it Heavy Lift Helicopter, but I have never seen it before so I was quite chuffed with myself. It was mainly a case of adapting the Ju52 idea from Eivinds Norwegian scn, which I would not have thought of quickly!

No, it's been around for a while. I used it recently in Warlords of China for the Ford Trimotor unit. Also, you can use parachuting aircraft carriers, which will carry their aircraft with them, and para-subs, which will carry missiles.

PS Anyone got any info on exactly what makes an obsolete unit get replaced?

You can use the same obsolesence techs for different units if they have different roles. In Red October I was able to change Central Powers units from immobile to mobile, and then to deserter units. I changed 5 different land units with just one tech: German and Austro-Hungarian infantry and cavalry, and artillery. The trick is to give each one a different role number: 0 (Attack), 1 (Defend), 2 (Naval Superiority), 3 (Air Superiority), 4 (Sea Transport).

@Tecusheh
Thanks for the files. I will see what I can learn from them. 'Birds' What were you smoking that day?

I'ts a scenario set in the 1960's. What do you think?

And it's techumseh.

[Von Bert]

"Old chap"???
yep.. surely im !!! :S
...but when civ/modding around..
i feel "younger then yesterday" as "the Byrds" band would have said in the 1960's...
to play/create/ with civ..is like making yoga !!!! )

Teutonic scenario?? well..im slow like a turtle !!!
Im stucked in finishing details on the map..and waiting for a "inspiration day" in wich i ll write down the tech tree..
i think is better i "fly down".. and make something simple to begin.. or i ll never finish !!!!

btw.. the problem with TOT dark-unit-shield-colour (that is darker then civ colour) had been solved ? is something that can be done easily ?

[McMonkey]

Originally posted by techumseh

And it's techumseh.

@Tech as in William T Sherman?
I am constantly looking back at my posts and seeing spelling errors. Due mainly to 'Fat finger syndrome'!

Thanks for the tips. I am almost done with the tech tree now. I opted for the long method for working out how many techs (no pun) were needed to aquire a specific advance by simply counting them for a few key ones (i.e Gunpowder = 15, Conscription = 24 and Railroad = 28. This will help me decide where to place things on the tree!

I suppose when a unit becomes obsolete it gets replaced by an equivilent ground unit, or does the replacing unit need to have better stats?
I.e. Marine a6 d4 becomes obsolete, does a new ARVN unit with a5 d3 replace it? or would the new unit need to be a7 d4?

I guessed I was not the first person to think of parachute a/c carriers! I was still pleased with myself though
The only drawback is that the carrier takes ALL air units in the city with it!

The idea of a missile carrier could be useful too. As far as I know my artillery shells are missile units an the a/c carrier carries them, what would be the advantage of the sub..........just figured that out myself I will sort out the problem in the paragraph above by swapping Heavy Lift Helicopters for artillery to subs!

Thanks techumseh!

[McMonkey]

Originally posted by Von Bert

btw.. the problem with TOT dark-unit-shield-colour (that is darker then civ colour) had been solved ? is something that can be done easily ?

@VB
Glad to hear Teutonic is still moving forward, even if it is slowly. I find I have creative peaks and lazy periods. I think the key is to try and do a little bit each day just so you are moving forward and when you are feeling inspired again you will be that much closer to finishing!

Re: The quote at the top of this post.
I'm not sure I follow! What problem is this?

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by Werd100
I opted for the long method for working out how many techs (no pun) were needed to aquire a specific advance by simply counting them for a few key ones (i.e Gunpowder = 15, Conscription = 24 and Railroad = 28. This will help me decide where to place things on the tree!

Sorry if my question is silly, but I was already wondering after one of your post above: you do know that the tech tree can be re-arranged (i.e. that every pre-requisite to any tech can be modified)?

That means you can have only 1 pre-requisite to gunpowder if you want!

And, while taking care of the specialties techs (like railroad and such), you use all the other techs as you want which makes things much easier!

[McMonkey]

@Cyrion

Your question is not silly, I probably didn't explain what I was trying to do.

I have tried to build tech trees from scratch in the past and always came to grief. My solution was to use the tree I was most farmiliar with which was already built and I knew worked. I then moved a few of the special slots (RR etc...) to suite my game and am about to add my tech names onto the tree. After I have done that I will link units and improvements to the techs.

The reason I wanted to know the absolute minimum number of techs needed to get to Gunpowder, for example, was so that it would appear roughly at the correct point in the game. There are 144 turns and I intend the player to develop roughly six techs per year (no trade!) therefore a tech that should appear in 1965 would need to be a minimum of 12 techs into the game (if it starts in 1963).

Obviously players will not nesassarily ruthlessly pursue one particular technology and then move on to the next so I will give them a couple of extra ones to play around with but as the idea of the game is to pick a winning strategy (Army, Airmobile, Armour, Special Forces or Airpower?) and following it through I need to know how far down the tree to place the crucial techs!

Basically I cannot be bothered making a brand new tree when the original one can be adapted into something quite new!

Sorry if this still does not make sense but I think it will work.

[Michael Daumen]

Originally posted by Werd100
I suppose when a unit becomes obsolete it gets replaced by an equivilent ground unit, or does the replacing unit need to have better stats?
I.e. Marine a6 d4 becomes obsolete, does a new ARVN unit with a5 d3 replace it? or would the new unit need to be a7 d4?

The stats don't need to be better, but you have to make sure the roles are correct. The computer will ugrade air units to ground, for example, if the techs coincide.