BITTERFROST III - DARKEST AEON...Playtest!

[AGRICOLA]

@ typhoon
Ancient = Undead ??

@curtsibling
1. I spotted this one while looking for "Ancient" in events.

IF
CITYTAKEN
city=Broodhelm
attacker=Stavark Empire
defender=Dreadful Alliance
@THEN
JUSTONCE
TEXT
The victorious Khaarov armies march into the Undead stronghold of Broodhelm. The loss of this main power base is a major blow for the Dreadful Alliance. They will sorely miss the mines and smithying facilities that are now owned by the Stavark Empire.

The Arch of Victory is erected to celebrate this day!

2. How many versions of the scen are in existence? Some of my city names are different from Hans99's. For example, I have Lochfair where he has Red Sage Hall.

[typhoon]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
@ typhoon
Ancient = Undead ??

One and the same.

[curtsibling]

@AGRICOLA!
Aha...An events slip up and then some!

I will change that little detail, along with a general overhaul of the events...!

I think the original cities have been wiped out, and a new one built on the site.



@Hans99:
Cheers, dude...

I think AGRICOLA more or less summed up the Jawbone wood problem there...!

[Cyrion]

Feedback

Time for some feedback now that my game is nearly over!

Sorry if it's not really detailed, but, well, you know,...

So, as I wrote, I started a game with the Stavark, at a level probably equivalent to King.

I soon started to trade with the Daargan capital, using the beakers to research the military techs allowing me to build Nightwings and the techs allowing the building of the Wonders.

For all duration of the game, the only units I built are:
- some workers
- trade units
- ships
- Runeguard (for martial law)
- Priestess (to bribe cities)
- Nightwings

I developped my cities with many improvements, and as I was rushing along the tech tree (thanks to the trade), I was able to build ALL the wonders, and so gained all the heroes! (BTW: they all appeared normally!).

My strategy was to conquer with the heroes or to bribe the city with Priestess, and to garrison with 2 Runeguard + 1 Nightwing. I used the Nightwings for some open land warfare too, and even to conquer some weakly defended cities.

I first developped peacefully, fighting only against the "bad guys" (Brotherhood and Alliance), until I was under attack from some other: I then started to take their cities!

I first annihilated the Skeer, and then took all the Daargan except their Capital, as I needed the trade I generated with it!

I then started to take on the Khaarov cities, which is now nearly finished.

I kept from attacking the Shuuk, just because I felt like it...

The Brotherhood and Alliance are now nearly finished soon, and I suppose I'll then take the Daargan capital before quitting, leaving the game with only the Shuuk and me alive!

I had a really enjoyable game, but 2 things might be improved IMO:
- I would remove the "diplo" ability for players to bribe cities, as it makes it really too easy once your economy is rolling
- I didn't need to build any real "offensive" units, because I had enough heroes to do the job: this might well change if I play at a higher level, as I then wouldn't get all wonders so easily; anyway, the Nightwings (and equivalent) might need to be weakened a little bit: with their 5/5 2/2 and all as road, they are just too useful!

And in short: you did it again, Ciaran!

[Cyrion]

Re: Feedback

Originally posted by Cyrion
The Brotherhood and Alliance are now nearly finished soon, and I suppose I'll then take the Daargan capital before quitting, leaving the game with only the Shuuk and me alive!

I finished the game in 84: after having crushed the Khaarov, annihilated the Shuuk (the first kill was a mistake, the others were not... ), took the Daargan capital in 1 turn (with 2 Heroes, 1 battlelord and 3-4 Nightwings).

And then had to find the last Undead city, and it was over...

BTW: I established embassies with the Shuuk, the Foes and the Undead, to know how many cities they had, but it disappeared on the next turn: how do you do that??

[curtsibling]

Good playtest, Cyrion!

I am chuffed that you had a good gaming experience and brought Stavark wisdom and liberation to the Jawbone Islands.

...Huzzah!

And award yourself any of the pretty Rune Daughters from the royal harem for your feat of conquering the whole land!



I will be looking at making the overhaul to BFIII very soon.

The data gathering is almost done, and your feedback is a great addition to that already given by Hans and AGRICOLA.
I am also making the illustrations for the README, which is consuming the most time, but the looks will be worth it.
It is fun drawing all these Ninjettes, Matriarchs and Death Nuns, let me tell you!

PS
I am not sure what is going on with the diplomacy in regards to the non-player civs, but I will remove the ability
to overthrow cities with cash, if you think it unbalances things too much...I guess heroes are just as good for
city-busting. Keep in mind, it will not stop the AI from using their spies to grab your cities, though!

More to come on BFIII as I get the next round of changes done!

[Hans99]

As told i played another game as Stavark, Deity till turn 80 with altered rules.gif.

Changed stats to:

Nedling warrior A 5 D 3
Nedling Guard A 3 D 4
Wight A 5 D 3
Skeleton Guard D 3
Battering Ram Mov 1
Werewolf A 6 D 3 FP 2
Harpy A 4 FP 2
Behemoth A 12 HP 3
Nedling Charger A 6 D 2
Privateer A 4 D 4
Spectral Rider A 6 D 2
Mortar A 8 HP 1 FP 3 Mov 1
Catapult A 5 Mov 1
Kannon A 4 D 4
Thrower A 6 Mov 1
Slaughterer D 5
Kog D 2 Mov 10
Kutter D 4 Mov 12
Death ** A 4 D 4 Mov 1
Skorpion A 7 HP 1 FP 3 Mov 1

Wood shields + 1


Nedling Warriors were present together with spearman, and harder to kill.

The Wight got a little "big" Enemy, sometimes hard to kill, especially at the start.

The Skeleton Guard now made it a lot harder at the beginning to conquer foe cities, big conquering started around mid game, with Nuns etc. appearing.

Battering Ram was slow to come up, but was useful at the beginning, especially against unwary Wights and Kannons.

The Werewolves were a pain in the ass for the skeer ( peeked with cheat ), until turn 50, when they sent in a Witchhunter to stop these pests.

Harpy was very agressive and conquered half of shuuk territory, maybe too dangerous now.

Behemoth was very Dangerous now , Undead had some problems with this guy, but me also, but was fun to hunt down big daddy.

Nedling Charger are very annoying, as are Privateers now, but still were able to handle them.

Spectral Rider was a bad sight, cause i cursed whenever they appeared, even in mid game.

The Mortar still was very powerful, but you now needed a good strategy to get them where they had to go, and protect 'em against counterattacks, same goes with Skorpion, Thrower and Catapult. Both were also not used in mass numbers by the AI but were used in the same numbers as Nun's etc...

The Kannon was "real" annoying, ****ingdangerous, maybe too dangerous...

Slaughterer was especially dangerous, making the Ancients a real threat, especially in the later game!

Kog behaved as usual, as did Kutter.

The Deathnun type unit now was still a very powerful unit, even with A/D 4/4, but i experienced their speed as to slow now. They were still good at escorting and defending, but attacking got, well, more difficult.

As Expected, the resource shield in the wood had no great siginificance.

Did not build any Herowonder's, but the enemy did, and got all Heros this time.


btw, i also like your new Diplomatic texts, -> "GUARDS, get that Jerk etc...", i will use them in my standard Civ, cause i think the original diplomatic text's of civ were kind'a impudent, but your's are nice


In this sense


Greets

[curtsibling]

Good work - Sounds rather cool!
I will try everything, but I might keep the trees as they are.

Can you upload your rules file for me? Eager to try it!

[AGRICOLA]

I'm at 97 spring (turn 291) of a very conservatively played played game. A lot of time and resources have gone to building 200+ Engineers who have been making farmland and building mines and roads and hundreds of Freights who have been generating large amounts of cash for the treasury so that each of the 123 cities can IRB either a unit or a improvement every turn.

The last phase, an attack on the Undead and the few remaining Brotherhood cities is about to begin.

I entirely agree with earlier comments by Hans99 and Cyrion that the Falconer class of units is too strong and, after some testing, have decreased their A/D from 5/5 to 3/5. As this has greatly reduced their usefulness for attacking walled cities, slower moving Mortars as well as Engineers to build needed access roads and protective fortresses have played a much greater role in the game. Unquestionably, this has significantly slowed the game but has elevated the importance of Mortars and Engineers, probably a good thing.

For Falconers, I decided on A/D = 3/5 because the 4 Undead cities in the Broodhelm area can be captured only by amphib assault. The impassable mountains protecting them cannot be crossed by Mortars, even if there is a road. I ran single tests with A/D = 5/5, 4/5 and 3/5 to see how many vet Falconers would be killed in capturing Broodhelm.

The results were:
A/D = 5/5……………15
A/D = 4/5……………27
A/D = 3/5……………57

That was the basis for selecting 3/5. The losses are heavy but acceptable towards the end of the game. The alternative is to use heroes and generals for the assault. With the 5 heroes and 4 generals that I have, there is no problem destroying the defenders. However, as not all players concentrate on obtaining these units at the start of the game, they would have to use Falconer class units and accept the losses. The knowledge that heroes and generals might be needed might provide some impetus for a player to work towards obtaining these units when they have the opportunity.

Otherwise, the scen has played slowly but well.

However, Your Honor, I must most strenuously object to the popups implying that there is a gate to another plane under Black Keep and that the bedraggled cities on Smoke Island are potential hotbeds of trade, even better than the incredibly productive Greymarsh or Port Wavebone. There is absolutely no evidence to support either claim.

[Hans99]

As you wish.

Attached changed rules.txt


Greets

[curtsibling]

Thanks so much, chaps!

Been at Iron Maiden in Glasgow last night, and then meeting
my brother, who just came back from the USA this morning!

So I am just catching up with events of the last day!

I am going to read up the data here, and begin making changes this weekend!

I have a definite check list of CIV2-related text tasks to carry out!

[curtsibling]

Just read the report!
Great stuff, AGRICOLA!

I will add you and Han's recommendations this weekend!

[Cyrion]

Can't wait to see your readme file and its illustrations!

Originally posted by curtsibling
Been at Iron Maiden in Glasgow last nigh

[OT mode] (I just HAD to )
Saw them in Zurich last week: too bad they saw this event as mainly promotion-time for the last album: they played ALL of it, leaving room for only 5 classics...

Probably the first time in 20 years that I left a Maiden concert slightly disappointed...
[/OT mode]

[curtsibling]

Actually, I enjoyed the full playing of the new LP.
I suppose Maiden always are up front about their intention not
to become like Status Quo, and play all the same old songs...

But, did you guys get to see the big Eddie tank?

Pretty cool!

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by curtsibling
But, did you guys get to see the big Eddie tank?

Pretty cool!

Yes, it did roll up to Switzerland too!

And even if I'm not as much a geek as some around here (), and as such wasn't able to recognize what kind of Tank it was, I think it was probably inspired by one of your title screen!