South Atlantic Conflict v1.0

[academia]

Techumseh/St. Leo:
I just want to inform you that i uploaded my scenario about the falkands war in the Scenario League site.
i hope i did everything ok

for the rest:
this is a scenario based on the Falklands War; which took place in the southern area of the American continent between March and June 1982.

Originally, I had begun to create this scenario several years ago; even before the release of the first expansion disk: “Conflicts in Civilization”.

The scenario was created in 3 different processes: January 2002 (version 0.1); August 2002 (version 0.2); April 2003 (version 0.3) and September 2004 (version 1.0). however, i´m not taking into accoun all the graphical updates.
I even tested in many pbems here, in civfanatics and evolution games. Some of you might even remember playing those pbems

Encouraged by mikko, i decided to give it a shot and add it in the scenario league site.

you can find it here:

http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.php?title=South_Atlantic_Conflict

[Nilat]

Re: South Atlantic Conflict v1.0

Great to hear! My new PC needs to be embellished by Alejandro's talents!

Encouraged by mikko.

That would be me everybody! Me!

P.S: If curt sees this post, can you just quickly tell me as a side where I could get your bitterfrost scenario for ToT? Cant find it anywhere!

[Bostero]

re:

very good Alejandro!
going to check it!

[curtsibling]

Re: Re: South Atlantic Conflict v1.0

Originally posted by Nilat
Great to hear! My new PC needs to be embellished by Alejandro's talents!



That would be me everybody! Me!

P.S: If curt sees this post, can you just quickly tell me as a side where I could get your bitterfrost scenario for ToT? Cant find it anywhere!

Right here for you, bro!

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157197

[Nilat]

Thanks a lot Curt! [End of thread jacking and beginning of a great journey for the colonisation of the Island of Bitterfrost. For the Imperion!]

[techumseh]

Nice job on the wiki page, Academia! It's really pretty easy to use.

[AGRICOLA]

I downloaded South Atlantic Conflict v1.0, started playing it, and immediately ran into several things which you may want to look at.

1. Normally, in RULES, "10 ; # of rows in shield box".
You have "20 ; # of rows in shield box"
This has the effect of doubling the shield cost of everything that is built. A Barracks that is supposed to cost 40 shields actually requires 80 shields to complete.

2. In RULES, I wonder whether nearly all units should have a "no" in the Prerequisite Advance column. A "no" has the effect that the unit
a. does not appear in the Military Units pulldown
b. cannot be built

I don't think that building is particularly significant in this short scen. However, it is impossible to play a scen without knowing the parameters of one's units as well as the opposition's. I replaced all "no" with "nil".

3. In the README, it would be very helpful to have a simple sentence to the effect that:
"Open the Falklands.bat file, choose the version of the scenario that you want to play and then start the version you want to play."

This is a bit more descriptive than:
"In order to choose the version you’d like to play, please load “Falklands.bat” file."

For additional clarity, you might consider moving the sentence to the section dealing with "Installation" .

4. The link you provide

http://www.naval-history.net/NAVAL1982FALKLANDS.htm

is absolutely fantastic. I spent several fascinating hours reading it. Too bad that it is so skimpy about the actions by the Argentinian forces.

[academia]

Agricola:
First of all, let me tell you that i really appreciate your comments. Sometimes, i just assume that some characteristics of the scenario are implicit, and that i don´t need to explain them.
moreover, taking into account that english is not my native language, i understand that some sentences may be confusing or should be more descriptive

and now, let´s move to your comments:

1)

1. Normally, in RULES, "10 ; # of rows in shield box".
You have "20 ; # of rows in shield box"
This has the effect of doubling the shield cost of everything that is built. A Barracks that is supposed to cost 40 shields actually requires 80 shields to complete.

Well, in this scenario building improvements isn´t the main point, so i just didn´t take care of the number of rows in the shield box. Anyway, i´ll take a look at that.

2)

2. In RULES, I wonder whether nearly all units should have a "no" in the Prerequisite Advance column. A "no" has the effect that the unit
a. does not appear in the Military Units pulldown
b. cannot be built

The point is that both argentina and england had a limited number of units.
In the case of Britain they had to move those ships and planes from their motherland. So, i considered that letting them buy harriers in port stanley will be unrealistic.
On the other hand, Argentina had to import those mirages or A4s. And during the war, france and other countries blockaded argentine military importations... so, i wanted to show that you can´t build "foreign units". Just some "local" units like infantry and minor military hardware.

Moreover, argentina has a lot of cities while england... practically none. I didn´t want that the argentine player was able to build superetendards or exocets everywhere.
I hope i made myself clear.

I don't think that building is particularly significant in this short scen. However, it is impossible to play a scen without knowing the parameters of one's units as well as the opposition's. I replaced all "no" with "nil".

Mmm... you can always activate the cheat mode and test the units in any way you want.

3)

3. In the README, it would be very helpful to have a simple sentence to the effect that:
"Open the Falklands.bat file, choose the version of the scenario that you want to play and then start the version you want to play."

This is a bit more descriptive than:
"In order to choose the version you’d like to play, please load “Falklands.bat” file."

For additional clarity, you might consider moving the sentence to the section dealing with "Installation" .

Yep, you are right about it. I´ll change that inmediatly

4)

4. The link you provide

http://www.naval-history.net/NAVAL1982FALKLANDS.htm

is absolutely fantastic. I spent several fascinating hours reading it. Too bad that it is so skimpy about the actions by the Argentinian forces.

Yep, finding great links is always useful for the creation of scenarios.


anyway, i hope you are enjoying the scenario

[AGRICOLA]

I haven't much more than started the scen but it appears to be pretty simple for Britain to capture Stanley during the first turn. Depending on what improvements survive the capture, my first move would be to rush build City Walls, if needed, or rush build Barracks. This is where the number of shields per row makes a huge difference in cost, with 20 shields per row costing more than twice what 10 shields per row cost.

If playing Britain, I don't think that it matters very much what units can or cannot be built. I suspect that it is more important to make sure that none of the cities on the Falklands are razed because they lack City Walls or ground units need unnecessarily lengthy recuperation because there are no Barracks.

To resolve the problem, might it be possible to have 8 prerequisite techs which determine whether a unit can be built and who can build it?


Tech#.....................Who Has It
1.........................No one
2.........................Argentina
3.........................Britain
4.........................Chile
5.........................Argentina, Britain
6.........................Argentina, Chile
7.........................Britain, Chile
8.........................All

This approach would show all units in the Military Units pulldown yet allow you to limit the types that any civ can build.

All 3 civs have many ancient techs, ranging from Alphabet to Pottery which have have no effect on the scen. Eight of these could be used for the unit prerequisites.


Sorry, but I don't dare to use the cheat mode. I'd be banned from this forum, heartless mods would delete my laboriously composed posts, the boss would divorce me and it surely would rain cats and dogs.

[academia]

I haven't much more than started the scen but it appears to be pretty simple for Britain to capture Stanley during the first turn.

yep. i know that´s pretty simple. the point is playing with england in the most difficult levels.
with argentina, playing in king level is hard enough.

I suspect that it is more important to make sure that none of the cities on the Falklands are razed because they lack City Walls or ground units need unnecessarily lengthy recuperation because there are no Barracks.

great. you noticed that point

To resolve the problem, might it be possible to have 8 prerequisite techs which determine whether a unit can be built and who can build it?

i still can´t see the problem. you can build what appears in the list... that´s all.

This approach would show all units in the Military Units pulldown yet allow you to limit the types that any civ can build.

i still find that useless... why do you need to see the units there? you can always take a look in the edit unit control in cheat mode, or just look at the rules file.
anyway, if i receive more complaints about this issue, i´ll change it.

All 3 civs have many ancient techs, ranging from Alphabet to Pottery which have have no effect on the scen. Eight of these could be used for the unit prerequisites.

science research is irrelevant in this game.

Sorry, but I don't dare to use the cheat mode.

eh... everyone use it!! otherwise, how will we be able to create scenarios? cheat mode is the only way.
one more time, i encourage you to create units in the map and test them.

[academia]

well... i checked the pbem, and bostero (he´s using argentina) had a similar complaint about the units...

ok, i´ll fix that then and post the new files in the scenario league

you convinced me

[AGRICOLA]

eh... everyone use it!! otherwise, how will we be able to create scenarios? cheat mode is the only way.
one more time, i encourage you to create units in the map and test them.

The SL Designers Guild allows its members to use certain proprietary techniques in creating their masterpieces. Use of these methods is strictly verboten to us, the vast, unwashed, mass of players.

well... i checked the pbem, and bostero (he´s using argentina) had a similar complaint about the units...

ok, i´ll fix that then and post the new files in the scenario league

you convinced me

1. Sir bostero is a player with the highest ethical standards........... he would never stoop to using the cheat mode.

2. Thank you. IMHO, players will be very grateful for the fix.


I did a second fix on the game I'm playing. I took away the Alphabet tech from all civs and replaced all the "no" in the prerequisite column with Alp (Alphabet). Now, all units are visible on the Units pulldown but civs can build only those units than you designated.

[conmcb25]

I remember PBEMing this years ago with pinkygen.

Very fun scenario

[academia]

i´m working on a new tech tree and other minor things. i noticed that i forgot to modify lots of things... give me some time

[AGRICOLA]

I entirely agree with conmcb25 that this scen is indeed not only fun to play but also challenging. The scen is not very long but it is absolutely hairy to play. It is the best example I have seen of modelling the violence and high losses associated with modern warfare.

@academia
If you are cleaning up some minor things, you may perhaps want to look at the following:

1. I don't understand the role that Chile is supposed to play and was surprised to see Pinochet attack Argentina. Aside from the historical accuracy, I didn't like to see Argentinian units diverted from the Falklands. They lost a city and several good aircraft in the fight with the Chileans.

I seriously considered destroying the Chilean civ just to get rid of a distraction.

2. Among the 10 objectives needed for a decisive British victory is the city of El Calafate in the foothills of the Andes. The Readme is quite specific on what the Brits cannot do

YOU CAN´T INVADE CONTINENTAL ARGENTINA!!! This is a Falklands War Scenario. Please, fight for the islands.

3. Is the Port Stanley wonder supposed to exist? It is in Port Stanley and on the WORLD/WONDERS OF THE WORLD pulldown but I'm not sure whether it has been disabled in RULES.

4. It would be good if Britain had an embassy in Argentina. This would provide players with some idea of enemy losses, information that combatants normally have. With diplomacy disabled, there is no risk of unwanted negotiations.

5. Several Argentinian cities are building Impassable Terrain. Should this unit be made unbuildable?