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**Arthedain** · June 9, 2006, 05:41

Sorry for the OT here, but we're still in need of a decent GIGAmap for Europe too.

Edit: Only one I've seen is the "realeuro" one, but IMHO that one's far from finished.

**curtsibling** · June 9, 2006, 15:25

After an underwhelming reaction...

I might stick to the existing map now, with edits.

I know that map-wizardry is indeed a tough career.
So no problems, I will get out Mapedit and make some changes!

**Patine** · June 9, 2006, 18:55

You know, if Steph's computer hadn't crashed, he might be able to do this. But alas and alack, he is indisposed Civ-wise. Though, I have chatted with him lately, and he's alive and well, though quite busy with work.

**curtsibling** · June 10, 2006, 04:22

Good to hear it!

I wonder if Mercator has any unreleased world maps hidden away?

**Stefan Härtel** · June 10, 2006, 08:22

Right, I think I could give it a try. I'm not the best map maker, but I might as well do something that is at least rudimentary, so people unhappy with it can edit it.
All I need is a blank tempelate of the map (just an empty map with 130x190 or whatever you want) because I seem to be unable to create one that is bigger than the standart "large" map.

Oh, and maybe it would be beneficial for me to know if you have a special preference in the projection.

Mercator:

Winkel:

Peters:

Normally, I'd do Winkel because that's what I'm used to, but the problem with it is that it isn't cylindrical, which would cause a few problems with the Civ2 Map.
Maybe this one could be a compromise:

**Mercator** · June 10, 2006, 09:27

Originally posted by curtsibling
After an underwhelming reaction...

I might stick to the existing map now, with edits.

Ah, what did you expect? Every time someone posts asking people to make them a scenario the first reaction is they should try making it themselves. Why would that be any different for maps?

Originally posted by curtsibling
I wonder if Mercator has any unreleased world maps hidden away?

I do, in fact, have unfinished world maps. I have a 170x172 world map that's all grassland/ocean, no rivers either (well, I already "finished" Greenland and the Canadian arctic islands). It's using the Miller map projection, which looks like something halfway between Stefan's first and last examples, the Mercator and cylindrical equidistant projections. I won't be doing any more work on it anytime soon, but if someone is willing to do all the terrain, be my guest.

It doesn't include Antarctica, though, and it has a *lot* of islands, which will probably cause problems for the AI so they'll have to be reduced.

The biggest problem is that, um, geographically, Europe is fairly small. So you can't really have a map that's accurate that has enough room for action in Europe, without the rest of the world being huge as well. There simply are no existing map projections that magically make Europe, North America, or all of the temperate zones, relatively bigger to conveniently accomodate for these more crowded arenas while not making places like Africa or Asia humongous in comparison.

While I think I'm pretty good at making geographically accurate maps, Civ2 scenarios doesn't always need geographically accurate maps. Because of varying importance of different regions in a certain (historical) period it would often be better to have some sort of distortion that make the maps more practical for the scenario setting.

I'm always reminded of economical maps in my atlas that have the Earth completely distorted, where each country is a simple rectangle with an area relative to its population or GNP or something. I think something like that would be great for Civ2. Something halfway between such an abstract view and a "proper" world map. Having a world map that's slightly distorted, making countries with higher populations slightly bigger, and countries with smaller populations slightly smaller, say. I have no idea how to do that elegantly, or at all, though.

In that sense, the default World maps that come with Civ2 aren't all that bad, because they are distorted to have a disproportionally large Europe, for instance.

**curtsibling** · June 10, 2006, 13:31

@Stefan:
You suggestion looks like a good mix between size and utility, as Merc points out!
If you have the time and patience to give it a go, I would be happy to try it...

Indeed, feel free to distort as you see fit, in order to give Europe more room, etc.
If you are making the map, could you skip the use of Grassland, and tundra? As I am
using these for special scenario terrain...Cheers x 1000!

@Merc:
What do I expect?
The correct shoe for the correct foot!
Some of you people are way better at maps, than little me...(hint! hint!)

The points you raise are very valid, and I agree totally. The accurate Earth map is
no use to accomodate the full plethora of scenario antics for a WW2 or modern scen.
But with some inventive use of shapes, and using less cities, the representation of
nations is possible. I am intriqued by your idea of half-abstract maps...Something
out of the ordinary is always cool. Jim Panse's map for his WW1 scen springs to mind!

**Stefan Härtel** · June 10, 2006, 15:25

Originally posted by curtsibling
Indeed, feel free to distort as you see fit, in order to give Europe more room, etc.
If you are making the map, could you skip the use of Grassland, and tundra? As I am
using these for special scenario terrain...Cheers x 1000!

Right, Tundra could be replaced without much problems. But I'll have to be creative when it comes to the grassland

I'm still having problems with the dimensions though... I'd really need that tempelate!

Announcement

The Great Earth Map Hunt Begins!

The Great Earth Map Hunt Begins!

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