My Next Project: A Poll

[Patine]

Progress update: Okay, the initial draft of the units in the rules.txt file (not yet assembled graphics) for both the UNITS and UNITS2 segments has been completed. I plan to handle the tech tree and improvements next. The working units.bmp will also be assembled shortly. I will then return to the map.

[Sarsstock]

How desnsly populated is the Korean Peninsula going to be in this scenario? Will there be considerable room between cities for combat in the open or will the fighting be city to city due to density?

[Patine]

@Chris: I plan a moderately dense map, with some potential for rural warfare, but not too far between cities either, especially as I'm amping up move allowances to represent the small scale.

Say, could someone take a look at my initial unit stats and tell me how close I am and what changes I should make (nothing other than units on the rules.txt has yet been edited). Note that I did forget to select infantry with the 'can cross impassable' flag, but that'll be done shortly.

[BillyBud]

Historically, the USSR was involved in the Korean War, but in a "non-official" sort of way:



War Materials:

There was massive Soviet assistance to the North Korean war effort. From 1946 to 1949, the Korean Army was built up with Soviet tanks, field artillery and aircraft. It was rebuilt after the U.S. counteroffensive, in the fall of 1950. A secret Soviet report values the equipment at 1 billion rubles, most of which the Koreans received at no cost.


USSR Secret Air War:

At the start of the air war, the Soviets provided virtually all the Communist aircraft; even after the Chinese entry on North Korea's side in late 1950, Moscow provided half of the planes fighting the United States. I have heard estimates as high as 1,500 planes were sent to China from the USSR; all of them were flown by Soviet pilots.

All told, Moscow assigned some 5,000 airmen to what would become essentially a two-year air war between Soviet and American pilots.

In a series of articles, Lt. Gen. Georgi Lobov, then commander of the 64th Fighter Air Corps, which fought in North Korea, details Soviet tactics. Soviet fighters were effective, Lobov says, because American fighter escorts had to fly as slowly as the bombers, and the Soviets were able to slash into the formations in high-speed attacks.

Despite the Soviets' being outnumbered by American planes by 8 or 10 to 1, Lobov claims that 1,300 U.S. planes were shot down in air-to-air combat or by antiair artillery. The number squares with U.S. estimates.


So I think you could use events to allow the USSR to covertly offer up fighter jets, tanks and AA units to the North Koreans, and later, to the Chinese. The number of these could be increased the further up north the UN goes. Perhaps indicate these "loaned" units to the Chinese/North Koreans by way of a special marking on the unit itself.

In this way you avoid a wider Cold War.

More here:

http://www.koreacoldwar.org/news/usrarcconfblasser.html

[Patine]

You know, BillyBud, the idea of a civ primarily involved through air units is quite a neat one! Of course, that'd mean that air fields would be essential to them, as they couldn't (by Civ2 rules) land in North Korean cities. The concept, however, I think has some merit!

[techumseh]

That's an interesting article. Truth in war is hard to come by, regardless of the side.

The Soviets rotated many of their WWII aces through the Chinese airforce in Korea. However, many MiGs were piloted by Soviet trained Chinese. According to 'Air War over Korea', the Soviet pilots began appearing in the summer of 1951. AFAIK, the prop aircraft were flown by Chinese and NK pilots.

It might make sense to create 2 MiG-15 units, one which is inferior to F-86s and one which is equal or even little better. The fun is, you don't know which is which until you attack one.

[Boco]

@ techumseh

If you want to distinguish them by name in events.txt, you can use "MiG 15" (using a regular space) for one and "MiG 15" (using a hard space [Alt-0160]) for the other. During development, it might be useful to use labels that are more clearly different.

[BillyBud]

Originally posted by Patine
You know, BillyBud, the idea of a civ primarily involved through air units is quite a neat one! Of course, that'd mean that air fields would be essential to them, as they couldn't (by Civ2 rules) land in North Korean cities. The concept, however, I think has some merit!

I'm a complete novice at scenario design, so I don't know what's possible.

However, I'm wondering if it's possible to give the jets Soviet insignias, make them appear via events, but make them a part of the North Korea/Chinese civs (in other words they would be non-buildable in their weapons qeues)?

This way, you would have control over the quantity of, and what types of, "Soviet" military equipment that would appear. In addition, this would simplify the basing of this equipment.

[BillyBud]

Originally posted by techumseh
That's an interesting article. Truth in war is hard to come by, regardless of the side.

The Soviets rotated many of their WWII aces through the Chinese airforce in Korea. However, many MiGs were piloted by Soviet trained Chinese. According to 'Air War over Korea', the Soviet pilots began appearing in the summer of 1951. AFAIK, the prop aircraft were flown by Chinese and NK pilots.

It might make sense to create 2 MiG-15 units, one which is inferior to F-86s and one which is equal or even little better. The fun is, you don't know which is which until you attack one.

I agree. Sometimes certain facts can get pushed around a bit

Here is another interesting article detailing this Soviet/Chinese air war with the UN in the Korean War:

Soviet Involvement in the Korean War:
A New View from the Soviet-era Archives

http://www.oah.org/pubs/magazine/korea/oneill.html

[Patine]

Certainly controlled creation of a specific kind of unit can be done through events spawning. I'm still currently working out the Soviet role, as I want an enjoyable but focused scen, here. I've also begun thinking about the tech tree and improvements and WoW. I'm thinking, for happiness improvements, I'll have a simple one for the Temple that'll be universal, a Buddhist Temple (Cathedral) for South Korean cities (which won't help any of the Commies as they won't have the Religious Freedom {MT} advance, which the UN player will), and a Gulag/Yoduk (Colisseum) for the Reds, which will work better for one of them than the others (not sure which), because their cities will fill the Modern slot (meaning they have the Electronics tech). I've also though Barracks will be a UN only improvement, representing MASH units. Any advice on others?

[Patine]

Say, in light of Willhelm II's latest post, I'd like to make use of Wonders in some significant way. Likely, none will be built (given the limited time frame), but capturing some already in play may be important. Does anyone have any ideas what Wonders could be used, and in what guises?