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Originally posted by Eivind IV
@Pal:
We have common history, culture and ideas. Only the language barriers are the real obstruction, but this Switzerland has proven to not be as important anyway. Also, English is taking over as the official language within the union.
War between Greece and Turkey won't happen as long as both are members of NATO anyway, and currently pressing for EU membership, which further lessens the chance of this situation. But if Turkey invaded Greece, I would have no qualms of defending a democratic humanist Greece if in fact a reality. But this is so hypothetical it's uninteresting to discuss.
And it's not an economic pseudo-union even if you want to believe that it is. Whether you like it or not politics are made in Brüssel, and hencely it's a political union. But it was initially an economic "union". But ever since the Maastrict Treaty you can't deny that it isn't moving in towards further integration.
Also you seem to forget what a major role the EU has played in developing the Greek economy in post-war Europe, and not to mention Spain, Portugal, Southern Italy and Ireland. And now moving on to Eastern Europe.
And why are you talking about abandoning ancestral heritages? It is possible to co-operate across borders without giving up you identity. Hence the Federation part of the European Republic. Infact, all european contries has participated in our common ancestral heritage. Ancient Greek ideas on Democracy are now adopted all over Europe, we learned political functionalism from the Romans, and all modern democratic states are based on ideas of humanism from France. So without this floatation of ideas across borders in Europe, we'd all still live in the Middle Ages. Thanks to the EU we have learned how to grow mutually dependent on each other and have lived in peace now for 60 years, which can't be downplayed.
I don't expect everyone to be as enthusiastic about this European project as I am, but even nationalists such as yourself should recognize what a positive role the EU has had on all the European countries since it's foundation. Nor can you after some reflection deny how closely knitted together Europe really is, deniance or not
@Pal:
We have common history, culture and ideas. Only the language barriers are the real obstruction, but this Switzerland has proven to not be as important anyway. Also, English is taking over as the official language within the union.
War between Greece and Turkey won't happen as long as both are members of NATO anyway, and currently pressing for EU membership, which further lessens the chance of this situation. But if Turkey invaded Greece, I would have no qualms of defending a democratic humanist Greece if in fact a reality. But this is so hypothetical it's uninteresting to discuss.
And it's not an economic pseudo-union even if you want to believe that it is. Whether you like it or not politics are made in Brüssel, and hencely it's a political union. But it was initially an economic "union". But ever since the Maastrict Treaty you can't deny that it isn't moving in towards further integration.
Also you seem to forget what a major role the EU has played in developing the Greek economy in post-war Europe, and not to mention Spain, Portugal, Southern Italy and Ireland. And now moving on to Eastern Europe.
And why are you talking about abandoning ancestral heritages? It is possible to co-operate across borders without giving up you identity. Hence the Federation part of the European Republic. Infact, all european contries has participated in our common ancestral heritage. Ancient Greek ideas on Democracy are now adopted all over Europe, we learned political functionalism from the Romans, and all modern democratic states are based on ideas of humanism from France. So without this floatation of ideas across borders in Europe, we'd all still live in the Middle Ages. Thanks to the EU we have learned how to grow mutually dependent on each other and have lived in peace now for 60 years, which can't be downplayed.
I don't expect everyone to be as enthusiastic about this European project as I am, but even nationalists such as yourself should recognize what a positive role the EU has had on all the European countries since it's foundation. Nor can you after some reflection deny how closely knitted together Europe really is, deniance or not
No doubt about it dude, hadn't been for the EU Greece would still be a backward third world country. Corruption and mismanagement still run rampart even with EU funding and control. Before 1996 the only construction programmes(roads, airports,industry) were done by the German occupators and the military Junta. Greek politicians simply didn't give a ****.
Before the EU one can even argue that Greek society in most of its aspects was still based on the old tribal basis.
In any case economic development is one thing and political union is another. Just look at the different oppinions the european states have assumed on the Iraq issue.
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