Must the German/Axis in all WW2 Scenarios be Fundamentalist?

[Willhelm II]

Dissident was an important factor in WW2 - Germany did not have an easy time in subjucating the peoples of conqouered Russia, and the results were often chaotic.

I was thinking that perhaps Communism should be used for the German player, but renamed 'Totalitarianism'; it's a modern government that allows Martial Law, but also can be affected by happiness problems.

What do people think of this radical idea of eliminating fundamentalism from a WW2 scenario? It's just an idea at the moment.

[Stefan Härtel]

I remember one scenario already doing that... I'm not sure which one it was, but it could have been "Cruel Sea".

[Willhelm II]

Originally posted by Stefan Härtel
I remember one scenario already doing that... I'm not sure which one it was, but it could have been "Cruel Sea".

What do you think about the idea though?

[Boco]

It'll fly. Communism doesn't have the scientific problems of fundy. Vet spies are nice, too. IICR, WLTK days give extra arrows in all city squares (i.e. equivalent toe Rep and Dem).

There are two lines in @COSMIC of Rules.txt that you may want to tweak:

1       ; Communism pays support for all units past this (max 8)       

80      ; Communism is equivalent of this palace distance.

[our_man]

In Kobayashi's ZWK Germany has a communist government renamed.

[Stefan Härtel]

Originally posted by Willhelm II


What do you think about the idea though?

I think it is a good idea. The Fundamentalist government type does not resemble nazi Germany to the slightest. As a matter of fact, it does not resemble the real existing Theocracy in Iran, which it was meant to represent, either, but that is a different story.
I believe Communism is the government type that has the closest chraracteristics to nazi Germany, even though it too is flawed in a few details (corruption and waste, for example). Fundamentalism is in fact more suitable for the Allied democracies in that era. Stalin's USSR could much rather use The Republic. As for Democracy, I don't think it resembles any government during the war.

It's good to see people noticing that even in Civ2 scenario design, there are clichées.

[Harry Tuttle]

When making a WW2 scenario it's important to take note that many times the civs will be in total war and the "no negotiations" event will be in effect. This leaves happiness, economics, and research as the main effects of goverments.

[techumseh]

Fundamentalism really doesn't resemble ANY form of government, anywhere. The idea of everyone, everywhere being happy with their government is unrealistic. It would have perhaps been better if fundy made temples unnecessary or something like that.

If anything, fundamentalism would be more appropriate for the democracies of Britain and the US in WWII, where a high level of public support did exist for the war effort. Someone (?) recently proposed this for a scenario under construction, and I think they're on the money.

[techumseh]

Fascist governments ought to be represented by Monarchy, IMHO. They were economically inefficient and looming financial crises forced them to aggressively expand.

[Stefan Härtel]

Originally posted by techumseh
Fundamentalism really doesn't resemble ANY form of government, anywhere. The idea of everyone, everywhere being happy with their government is unrealistic.

Maybe we should rename Fundamentalism to Marxism

[techumseh]

Theoretical Marxism.

[Willhelm II]

Some great responses here - there is indeed a cliche with regards to WW2 scenarios and governments.

techumseh makes an interesting point with having Fascism as Monarchy; this is an interesting idea, since Fascism was wastefull due to corruption as Albert Speer himself sights as armaments minister in 'Inside the Third Reich'.

Wonders that affect happiness would come into more affect if happiness was a factor that Germany would need to consider; The Hanging Gardens could become 'Strength Through Joy' project, or Michael Angelo's 'Volks Radio Station', if we change the Cathedral into Radio stations. The Capture of Berlin could have a serious effect on the whole Reich as a result if such wonders were situated in this places.

[kobayashi]

Prefer using communism with the corruption factor set to maximum (20) and free support set at about three or so. Especially true if the Germans need to research new weapons.

Well actually, the main problem with monarchy is the crushing corruption when cities are far away from the capital so it really depends on the size of your map.

[Willhelm II]

GOVERNMENT: Totalitarianism

Corruption & Waste: High

Unit Support: 5 (Compulsary Military service).


IF the democratic nations were made to have Fundamentalism, Court houses could become 'Gestapo HQ' or 'Secret Police', which Totalitarianism need to build in order to make sure their Government officals are not up to no good, and wasting the good resources of the country - these however should have a high maintenance perhaps, to reflect the vast amounts of money that Governments like Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia employed to watch over their people.

[Patine]

Good point, there, all! In EotRS, and the unreleased original RotTR, I followed the herd and used a fundamentalist gov't for the main Axis player. That may well not have been accurate, and it may have made things too easy. As well, AGRICOLA complained Japan was too wealthy in EotRS, which I'm sure tithes and no corruption contributed to greatly. With EotRS v1.2, and my new plans for RotTR, I'll have to seriously reconsider the gov't strategy. In general, though, I fully agree with the analysis given on this thread about the default of fundamentalist gov'ts for Axis. I think it dates back to that early patch replacing fundamentalism with a jigged-up fascism for vanilla civ and adding Stormtroopers in place of Fanatics and a few Nazi-centric units in the test unit slots. I can't remember the author; it was aons ago, Internet time.