Colonialism (II) - The Age of Discovery

[Harry Tuttle]

I noticed this too. I was also able to take Huron from the Natives and it had the ability to produce ships. However the settler created cities could not.

I played a few turns last night. England is prospering and has a viable colony located in the northeastern and soon midwestern area of North America. The natives are a pain in my ass, but with a sufficient military presence I am able to make substantial gains on them.

[Boco]

Recent work organizing the SL Library thread got me to rereading those gems! to Harry. to Merc for his "spam" in the Community forum (for some reason the "sp.." joke did not evoke humor from me).

By Gothmog, 10-03-2001 in "Theories about AI and land mass numbering"

What happened when I imported an unanalyzed map into a scenario using map copy, was that all the body counter numbers were the same, (zero I think). I think that's what causing the AI not to build ships, it thought there was only one land mass.

What is the land mass number(s) in the places where new cities can't build ships? Any of them 0? This is important, since it could allow us to design this 'bug' into scenarios. Sadly, MGE isn't on this PC.

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by Boco
What is the land mass number(s) in the places where new cities can't build ships? Any of them 0? This is important, since it could allow us to design this 'bug' into scenarios. Sadly, MGE isn't on this PC.

Thanks Boco. You mean the (123),(321),(0) right? I think I saw it last night, but I'll have to check.


@Eivind: Well I finally made some real headway in cleaning out North America for my Anglo brothers. After getting the heavy artillery, the one with 10 attack and 1 defense, I was able to really start attacking enmass those tribal capitals and every city located on the Mississippi river basin. The African slaves are helping tremendously as most of eastern North America is wooded. The native units are a challenge as I'm getting attacked frequently.

A critique on the tech tree. It seems I'm able to bypass a lot of the weaker units and head straight for the good artillery before long.

[Eivind IV]

@Boco:
Hmm, I'm not sure I understand what land mass number means...How do I find out this?

@HarryT:
Great to hear you're beein harrassed by the AI. That was way improved in this version. Also, good to see you're using the slaves as intended. I added a lot of wood to all continents, so you'll have to chop down if you intend to colonize land.

How does the AI human civs play btw?

And it's not intended at all to be able to bypass the earlier artilleries. I'll have to check this out!

Cheers!


EDIT:
I took a look at the tech tree, and can't see how it is possible to bypass the royal artillery to reach heavy artillery...What did you research to get through?

[Boco]

Harry's got it right.

Click on a square. In the status pane, you should see something like "Location: (xx, yy) mm", where xx and yy are the map coordinates of the square. The last number, mm, is the land mass. Civ2 numbers all oceans and continents with land mass numbers (may be 'land' mass number is a misnomer).

If Gothmog's theory is right, many land masses outside of Europe will have the same 'land' mass number as an ocean. So if he's right, then all you have to do to prevent new cities from building ships or coastal improvements is the give the squares that will lie under future cities land mass numbers that are the same as those assigned to oceans.

The only way I know to limit what a city builds to specific units is by setting it up on the initial map. Naturally, the AI will put all your efforts to waste on turn 1.

[Eivind IV]

That's brilliant! But how do I control this land mass thing? How can this be changed for instance? I havn't done anything out of the usual I think, but it appears all squares are '0' anyway. Which is great in my case of course, but I'd like to know for future referance!

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by Eivind IV
EDIT:
I took a look at the tech tree, and can't see how it is possible to bypass the royal artillery to reach heavy artillery...What did you research to get through?

Somehow I think I did. The royal artillery has the horizontal cannons and the heavy has the tilted cannons, right? I'll have to see what I did tonight when I get home.

The same thing happened with one of the infantry units too, if I'm not mistaken.

[Boco]

Hexing is easiest. Do you have Excel [Edit] and Axe [/Edit]?

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by Eivind IV
How does the AI human civs play btw?

Do you mean the other AI civs or my civ?

[Eivind IV]

@Boco: Yes I do have Excel.

@HT: The other AI civs.

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by Eivind IV
@HT: The other AI civs.

Well, the problem I saw was that they weren't moving units over the ocean. From what I could see the mainland Europe civs stayed in their place and didn't mount much of an effort. Occasionally the Orange would drop a settler or a caravan in England or the Ottomans would attack one of my transports.

I wonder if the terrain needs some revamping to get the AI to settle the rest of the world. I remember that Curt had a problem with Bitterfrost in the he didn't have enough "good AI" terrain for the AI to settle on. That restricted the AI expansion. The solution was to change the terrain quality. In fact, I think I used it in Gold Gulch to keep the AI within the city terrain limits. It was MapCopy I think. Hmmmmmm, but those scenarios used large land areas, not continents...

[Boco]

By giving large parts of the New World a land mass of 0, you are likely confusing the AI about where new land is.

You may be facing a dilemma. Do you want to prevent New World cities from building ships, or do you want to have an agressively expanding AI? It would take some testing, but it's possible that the two are mutually exclusive.

Fertility, a vital key to getting a settler to found cities, can be hexed as easily as land mass.

My xls map hexing aid is too buggy for beta release, but if you list detailed instructions, I believe I can hex your map to have hotspots for settlers.

[Harry Tuttle]

I would go for rapidly expanding civs. In fact, shipbuilding became an industry in the New England colonies in the early 1600s. So I think the real issue is if the colonies should be building ships from the start. To prevent the colonies from producing ships just make them too expensive for it to be efficient.

[Eivind IV]

@HT:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean with improving the quality of terrains. Do you mean up the production of food, trade etc? If so, why would the AI want to ship setlers across oceans to colonize when the same grassland terrain may be found in closer sorroundings - in Europe itself for instance! It would call for seperate terrains for the new lands and the old world...hmm...Maybe plains could be made into a European grassland, and the original grassland a colonial grassland. Like in Kobayashi's TRON. I havn't played that scen in SP, only in MP, but I'll test it. That would be the most probable reason he chose to do it this way.

As it is now the AI is too stupid to ship colonists to settle different continents. I tried to use goto events, but they only sent over ships, without units in them, so I skipped that. But as it is now, the scenario works very well in PBEM. Relatively few playable civs which makes for fast playing, and there are so many different approaches for each civ. We're playing a very enjoyable one over at EVO atm.

Btw, as they did build ships in New Enland, they didn't in other colonies, did they? I mean, outside North America...

@Boco:
As it is a dilemma, I'd much rather have an expansionist AI, than no ship building in colonies. But if what you hinted, that you can give for instance the American continent a higher land mass number, and not Africa for instance, all would be well and acceptable historical.

I'm still confused as to what land mass number means, and I'm still confused what you mean with detailed instructions from my part. What do you want to know? Do you want me to list what squares to have a higher land mass? If so, that would be allllot of squares.

And what is the fertility thing really and how can changing it get the idiotic AI to ship settlers to America for instance?

[Eivind IV]

Originally posted by Eivind IV
Maybe plains could be made into a European grassland, and the original grassland a colonial grassland. Like in Kobayashi's TRON. I havn't played that scen in SP, only in MP, but I'll test it. That would be the most probable reason he chose to do it this way.

Hah, just as I thought, in TRON, all the rival AI cities founded several cities in America. Brilliant! I'll have to study this more and test it in my own scenario. This just get better and better. Now I may have colonial cities which can't produce ships [i]and[/b] and a colonial expanding AI! I'll get back to you!