Are Stealth Fighters Overpowered?

[Gatekeeper]

Everyone:

I'll answer my own question: Yes, they are.

I've allowed some games to progress to the point where the AI gets stealth technology, and every time I'm left is disbelief at how *effective* stealth fighters are at decimating an attacking force, particularly if it's not sitting in fortresses on hills or mountains.

It really sucks when you have AI cities not connected by roads or rails, and defended by multiple stealth fighters. Heh. I'm having a helluva time getting armor and howitzers into range w/o losing half the attacking force. Worse, these cities are defended by SAM batteries *and* SDI facilities, which pretty much rules out missile strikes of any kind, and makes it difficult even for stealth bombers to carry out an effective attack. Most aggravating of all? The darn cities are size 3 and 4 respectively! AUGH! And they're the *last* Mongol cities! I've conquered everything else with my Aztec allies.

Gatekeeper

[rjmatsleepers]

My games rarely reach the point where the AI can build stealth fighters.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Gatekeeper]

Hmpfh. So what! I play differently! And, yes, sometimes it's a pain in the butt playing differently.

[Scouse Gits]

Of course they are - but it gives the AI a chance in the late game - as you have found - seems that this is your chance to exercise the Xin Yu Xpack - has this ever actually been used in anger? Please tell us your experiences...

Stu

[Grigor]

La Fayette would have counseled: vet spies! unless your personal rules prevent such a cheap and tawdry solution

[Sharkbait]

Even normal spies will allow you to get past the zone of control and combat engineers can railroad up to cities, and then your howies can chew up the defences. Not to mention the spy's exploding luggage....

[defrancoj]

well, it does seem obvious that the game's air power system in general was not carefully implemented.

If realism is desired, air power _should_ be decisive late game, but there is no way to pit the fighters against each other on the battlefield so "air superiority" isn't really a viable concept.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

These days, air power wins conventional wars. So it is in Civ2.

I don't think Stealth Fighters are too overpowered - not any more than Howitzers are, anyway. Unless the defending city is on a river, Howies can generally drive up on a RR, blast almost ANY one defender out of existence while losing less than 1/4 of its h.p., and then safely retreat to a city or fortress.

Stealth Fighters, on the other hand... they can take out multiple units, but not multiple strong units like Mech Inf or Armor. And it's suicide to use them on hard targets, like cities or BB's/CG's. They're basically a defensive unit that only does well against weak units left exposed.

To deal with AI cities that aren't railed together, use up some sacrificial engineers - 2 per roaded grass/plains tile to build instant RR, 2 more for an instant fortress. Or if by sea - 1 engineer to build a sacrificial city, then drive your transports loaded with Engineers/Mech Inf/Howies/Spies (for scouting) into the city to save movement points for the land units. And then you use the same technique - 2 engineers per roaded plain/grass tile, 2 more for the instant fort. Park everything in the instant fort next to the AI city - I can't see any way for the AI city to hold out for more than a turn, if you've brought the appropriate number of invaders.

Of course (as I'm sure you know) you can modify your fighters to make them work like bombers - one attack/turn and then they remain in the air for a turn before flying home.

[Peaster]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Of course they are - but it gives the AI a chance in the late game - as you have found - seems that this is your chance to exercise the Xin Yu Xpack - has this ever actually been used in anger? Please tell us your experiences...

Stu

I don't play the modern period often, but GOTM60 at CFC required it. So, I've experimented with the X-Pack. It is a bit slow, but almost indestructible, so it should solve this problem. The basic idea is to cover stacks of your ground troops with Stealth Bombers [in a patiently devious way]. I don't see it as a great way to release anger though.

Vet spies + engineers also seems good.

[Kataphraktoi]

It really sucks when you have AI cities not connected by roads or rails, and defended by multiple stealth fighters. Heh. I'm having a helluva time getting armor and howitzers into range w/o losing half the attacking force. Worse, these cities are defended by SAM batteries *and* SDI facilities, which pretty much rules out missile strikes of any kind, and makes it difficult even for stealth bombers to carry out an effective attack. Most aggravating of all? The darn cities are size 3 and 4 respectively! AUGH! And they're the *last* Mongol cities! I've conquered everything else with my Aztec allies.

While being a little rusty at civ2 here, cant you just cover your units with rotating bombers? I ussualy played my games with no caravans etc so they would be in modern age with a little strength like you say...but never had a problem really.

[defrancoj]

actually consider how cheap they are though. for the price, the stealth fighter is a steal, especially compared to the bomber, which of course can only kill one unit every TWO turns. By the time you're using stealth planes, two turns is an eternity, and situations in which two fighters won't crack a target that you'd expect a bomber to are rare (right? correct me if im wrong about that)

[Gatekeeper]

Heh. I ended up buying four stealth bombers and, between them and the surviving ground units, made Mongolia a footnote in the history books.

Thanks for the tips, although my personal rules generally preclude me from using them (i.e. especially sacraficial cities, bomber-guarded stacks). I do, however, use insta-forts and roads/rails from time to time. As for spies, the AI likes to take them out with cruise missiles. Overkill, man!

Gatekeeper