How many Civ2ers are still playing Civ4?

[Deity Dude]

How far did u guys get in that 2nd game

[rah]

not much farther.

[Deity Dude]

LOL - I think we need smaller worlds next time. I know I was the one who gave you that suggestion, but after playing that game I think we should tighten it up a little.

[rah]

Land is quite an issue that I thought really wouldn't be a problem in general. I started at the end of narrow peninsula with no rivers, no hills, and eventually no copper iron or horses, and not many other resources. 90% of it was swamp. My first city at the end of the peninsula that touched the mainland was so far the maint costs were absurd.
IN civ II you know real quick just how bad your land is. In IV it may look bad but you're not sure just how bad untill you keep getting resourse techs and none appear.
You were close to discovering gunpowder and I was still defending with archers.

So I don't care if it's smaller, as long as there's a river or hills nearby. And lots of forest to chop.

[Deity Dude]

To be honest - I think land is less important in IV. 95% of the time I build wherever the settler starts - 4% I move a square and build (only once did I walk around and look for a spot like I do all the time in civ II and I ended up getting beat to everything by 1 or 2 turns).

No doubt dessert floodplains are nice - but unlike Civ II nothing is unplayable. If u have a bunch of forests u can chop an early settler and move on, if you are coastal get fishing early, etc.. I am not saying some arent better than others but I have very rarely found that it is better to spend turns looking for the optimum than it is to just get going.

The other point is you never know where the hidden resources are. I've found that if u have a great start early - the hidden resources tend to be a little farther away and vice versa.

Anyways the thing I like most about IV vs II is that in II if you got a meaningful early lead you could build on it exponentially. Let's face it alot of games were decidied very early. In IV, and this may change over time, it seems alot harder to exponentially build your lead once you get one. Ther are too many options amd forks in the road.

[OzzyKP]

Swamp, Rah? There isn't swamp in Civ4.

[rah]

Jungle, OK.

[Deity Dude]

Didn't you see the politically correct thread in the other forums. They ae no longer jungles and swamps - they are now Rainforests and Wetlands.

[OzzyKP]

So is rainforest bunny politically correct now?

[rah]

Rivers and water are big at the opening. As you said when you wandered a turn you were getting beat by 1 or 2 turns. The same thing can happen if you have no water. That one coin can help you research poly one turn faster so you win the race. Not eventuall having easy access to copper, iron, or horses early on can be the kiss of death. I've had a few games now without rivers, water, or any of the critical resources near by. Fortunately those games ended early before anyone rolled right over me. At least in II if you have bad land you eventually find something good and send a few settlers there and resources aren't needed to defend yourself. In IV, if you have to spread out and build extra cites, you're penalized, and if you have no water, it's harder to pay for early on.

[Deity Dude]

They are very nice - especially if you are a Financial Civ. I just don't think not having them becomes unplayable. I'm not sure because I've played alot of games lately but, I think in our last 4 man game I started without rivers or water. I had alot of forests though.

BTW Are you gonna be up for an IV game this weekend?

[rah]

Not unplayable unless all the others do have access to them. Once they figure out you don't. dum de dum dum.

Yes will probably be looking or a IV game saturday.
We need to resolve your lag issue. That's the real kiss o death for games. I've been reading on people playing the blazing timer, but I don't think that's an acceptable alternative, since every now and then extra time is needed for attacks, or I just need a beer or smoke.

[Deity Dude]

I wonder if lag has to do with IP connection vs going thru gamespy.

[rah]

You're the only one that has had problems in all the games I've played. No one else has had it.

[Deity Dude]

I really only had lag issues the last IV 4 man game with you guys, an Aussie game and the last Civ II game I played with you guys. Berz was lagging in the beggining of that one too. Besides it wasnt that bad (2 or 3 secs a piece except the Aussie game was horrible)).

Now maybe its coincedence, but those were all IP games and I recently got a new Intertnet provider. It is high speed cable so it shouldn't be a problem. But, as hard as it is to connect to Gamespy, I've never had lag there once connected. Maybe its coincedence, don't ask me, I am definitely not a computer geek.